[Mike 75]

Originally Posted by JayCT

Actually Shoreline East likely cost a LOT more. Though the tracks were already there, there were no train stations so platforms, parking and facilities had to be added to each station where service was planned. Over the years the state has made additional investments in the service including rail cars and improvements to the New Haven Rail Yard which are all very expensive. Keep in mind rail service is by far the most expensive form of mass transit which is why it was not implemented instead of the busway. Despite what some know-nothing politicians claim, it would have likely been a $1 billion project if they went with rail. Jay

Apples and oranges. SLE has been running for 25 years, so I wouldn't be surprised if the costs over that period were more than $500 million. My point was that the start up costs for SLE were much lower than Fastrak, even when adjusted for inflation. And the busway is going to incur ongoing costs as well to the tune of $20 to 30 million a year, so the total costs will be much higher. $500 million is just the starting point.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by Mike 75

Apples and oranges. SLE has been running for 25 years, so I wouldn't be surprised if the costs over that period were more than $500 million. My point was that the start up costs for SLE were much lower than Fastrak, even when adjusted for inflation. And the busway is going to incur ongoing costs as well to the tune of $20 to 30 million a year, so the total costs will be much higher. $500 million is just the starting point.

$20 to $30 million??? Where did you get that number from? If you think that Shoreline East pays for itself, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Heck even the Metro-North New Haven line costs us a lot of money every year. Just about every mass transit system costs the taxpayers something. They cannot support themselves otherwise fares would be out of the reach of just about everyone.

Shoreline East started as a couple of old trains running along an existing track. The improvements needed to bring it up to modern standards while spread over several years has likely well exceeded the busway which had to be completely built from scratch.

Also remember that one of the major components of the busway was the Flatbush Avenue bridge over the busway and the New Haven-Hartford-Springfield train tracks. That added $80 million to the price tag and would have needed to have been done at some point anyway whether under the busway project or a separate one. That rail crossing was an accident waiting to happen. Before being so critical of the project, people need to become educated and stop listening to a few naysayers who have ulterior motives. Jay

[Mike 75]

Originally Posted by JayCT

$20 to $30 million??? Where did you get that number from? If you think that Shoreline East pays for itself, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Heck even the Metro-North New Haven line costs us a lot of money every year. Just about every mass transit system costs the taxpayers something. They cannot support themselves otherwise fares would be out of the reach of just about everyone.

Shoreline East started as a couple of old trains running along an existing track. The improvements needed to bring it up to modern standards while spread over several years has likely well exceeded the busway which had to be completely built from scratch.

Also remember that one of the major components of the busway was the Flatbush Avenue bridge over the busway and the New Haven-Hartford-Springfield train tracks. That added $80 million to the price tag and would have needed to have been done at some point anyway whether under the busway project or a separate one. That rail crossing was an accident waiting to happen. Before being so critical of the project, people need to become educated and stop listening to a few naysayers who have ulterior motives. Jay

You're right, its not $20 to 30 million. Its $12 to 22 million per year. My bad. Still a lot of money.

And where did I say that SLE pays for itself? I'm well aware that mass transit does not pay for itself, which is even more reason to ensure that there is a substantial benefit before building it. Spending $500 million to get an extra 5,000 riders (2,500 people in reality) per day on the bus doesn't meet that criteria, IMO.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by Mike 75

You're right, its not $20 to 30 million. Its $12 to 22 million per year. My bad. Still a lot of money.

And where did I say that SLE pays for itself? I'm well aware that mass transit does not pay for itself, which is even more reason to ensure that there is a substantial benefit before building it. Spending $500 million to get an extra 5,000 riders (2,500 people in reality) per day on the bus doesn't meet that criteria, IMO.

Well the same could have been said about Shoreline East when it first started. It was expected to have 840 riders per day. Why even bother to start it with that low of a number. Back in the mid-90's, Rowland tried to kill the service because it was so expensive to run but because of agreements made with environmental groups relating to the Q Bridge project, he was forced to back off and the service continued. The agreement even forced the state to make additional improvements to the line including station improvements and adding State Street Station in downtown New Haven. Today Shoreline East handles about 2,200 riders per day, still not a lot in comparison to what the busway is projected to handle. Again we need to give CTfastrak time to build a following. Jay

[HumpDay]

CT Fastrak should have found a better route through Hartford. It's practically right under the highway. What would they do when the viaduct is being replaced? They would probably have to get rid of that route and move it somewhere else. The project is still in the study and planning phase so it most likely won't get underway until 5 years maybe more.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by HumpDay

CT Fastrak should have found a better route through Hartford. It's practically right under the highway. What would they do when the viaduct is being replaced? They would probably have to get rid of that route and move it somewhere else. The project is still in the study and planning phase so it most likely won't get underway until 5 years maybe more.

Depending on the alternative selected, they will likely keep it operating since it runs along the side of the train tracks which also have to remain operating. They can be a little more flexible with the busway but they should be able to keep it in operation. Jay

[Mike 75]

CT Fastrak riders freeloading, not paying for tickets | WTNH

I guess those operating subsidies are going to increase.

Seriously, there is no mechanism to ensure that people have paid the $1.50 fare before they board the bus?

[HumpDay]

Originally Posted by Mike 75

CT Fastrak riders freeloading, not paying for tickets | WTNH

I guess those operating subsidies are going to increase.

Seriously, there is no mechanism to ensure that people have paid the $1.50 fare before they board the bus?

So there's more people riding it than the goal of 10,000-11,000 riders a day. They didn't count the people not paying....

They should have a system where you put your ticket in this "machine" next to the door of the bus so the bus driver will have a better sense if they payed or not. If the rider doesn't have a ticket to put into the ticket machine then they can't get on. No questions asked.

What method are they using? The trust system?

[mikelizard860]

Originally Posted by HumpDay

So there's more people riding it than the goal of 10,000-11,000 riders a day. They didn't count the people not paying....

They should have a system where you put your ticket in this "machine" next to the door of the bus so the bus driver will have a better sense if they payed or not. If the rider doesn't have a ticket to put into the ticket machine then they can't get on. No questions asked.

What method are they using? The trust system?

Any bus I've ever rode on the bus driver doesn't let you on the bus unless you pay.

[basehead617]

To be fair, the headline seems misleading.

It said they've had 'reports' of it happening.. that doesn't imply a major problem. Specific people asked said they had never seen it happen. Turnstile-jumping was a huge problem for decades in NYC before they beefed up enforcement. That didn't delegitimize having a subway system. Anyway I'm sure they're looking at the issue.

Just another way for people who are against the project to try to chalk one up for their side... and kind of a cheap shot at that.