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Why don't you give us the name of this private citizen along with his home address? I would absolutely love to have a constructive debate with such a prominent citizen.
Why would I put the name of anyone on a thread on a website that they don’t belong to?
With that said, you can find many of us on zoom P&Z meetings every month. It’s not that hard- we are pretty open about it. And FYI- I’m not some dying boomer, I’m in my early 30s, a semi left leaning younger millennial, and I totally agree with Jay. Allow local governance of how affordable housing gets built with some deadlines set by the state, or allow the WestConn model. People don’t move to places like NC or Ridgefield or Wilton or Weston to live in apartments. They move there for space. If people want to live in downtown areas with less space, let’s build up those areas. There is a ton of space in both Stamford and Norwalk- awesome cities, that can easily be built up. Let’s put money into revitalizing and building up Bridgeport and make it a great city again. Let’s not tear town the charm of small towns and try to make everything a small city. That’s a great way to get people who moved there for the small town charm to leave the state. And frankly, those are the people footing the tax bills.
Why would I put the name of anyone on a thread on a website that they don’t belong to?
With that said, you can find many of us on zoom P&Z meetings every month. It’s not that hard- we are pretty open about it. And FYI- I’m not some dying boomer, I’m in my early 30s, a semi left leaning younger millennial, and I totally agree with Jay. Allow local governance of how affordable housing gets built with some deadlines set by the state, or allow the WestConn model. People don’t move to places like NC or Ridgefield or Wilton or Weston to live in apartments. They move there for space. If people want to live in downtown areas with less space, let’s build up those areas. There is a ton of space in both Stamford and Norwalk- awesome cities, that can easily be built up. Let’s put money into revitalizing and building up Bridgeport and make it a great city again. Let’s not tear town the charm of small towns and try to make everything a small city. That’s a great way to get people who moved there for the small town charm to leave the state. And frankly, those are the people footing the tax bills.
Stamford and Norwalk are out of room. Where is there ton of space? Rich developers and their rich clients are demanding anything they can get their hands on. They don't care what town it is.
Stamford and Norwalk are out of room. Where is there ton of space? Rich developers and their rich clients are demanding anything they can get their hands on. They don't care what town it is.
Depending on WFH, there might be a lot of office space that can be converted into apts.
I don't think any place is really out of room for anything either you build left or right or you build up. Because the ground freezes you can't realistically build down. The only place I know in North America that builds down is Montreal. If you go the Midwest you'll find buildings that literally go on and on but there's no real incentive to build up. Once you start building buildings gone beyond a few floors then you have to figure in what happens when there's water issues and electrical issues and then elevators and Ada.
Small-town charm doesn't exactly work. If you go to Easton Connecticut we've got plenty of space but the populations been dropping significantly. With respect to sewer lines yes they're of course is an upfront cost a long-term maintenance cost but when you start talking about the health inspection that goes on with septic tanks there can be other issues. In Massachusetts for example under the title 5 you cannot sell a house if there was a crack in the septic tank. I don't know if Connecticut has similar laws but I'd make a strong argument that you should not be able to wave the form of inspection if there is a septic tank. I personally know of a river in southeast Mass which was polluted significantly decades ago due to multiple cracks and septic tanks of properties all alongside it. If they had sewer it would not be an issue. There are issues all over Cape Cod with septic tanks. https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine...YNP/story.html
I actually tore the house to buy more than a year ago and there was a significant smell in my agent actually told me that there was some issue with either the septic the well or both I just got out of there and ran as fast as I could. I can trust Public Water Systems and sewer systems it's a huge leap of faith for me to trust a septic tank and a private well
In the 1990s, Fairfield was not by any stretch orders of magnitude wealthier and more desirable than Stratford, but today they are a world apart.
Pretty much when the factories in Bridgeport dried up as mass employment (and those associated jobs like clerical staff) and the workforce in Fairfield dove inward with white-collar jobs. Fairfield allowed a lot more office space to be built than Stratford, which happened to coincide with the fast changing high-value employment market. It wasn't perfect, and it was overbuilt in a few projects, but overall it filled a growing need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTREInvestor
...but it is as I said plainly obvious that people like me buying $1 million houses on the beach are not numerous enough to ease the tax burden on the former middle class.
This is what is getting ignored here and the opposition to the changes... the idea that the big house big lot make up a bulk of Grand List, and ergo more of those alone are good. It's an idea that utterly flies in the face of economic principles. One of my client's property tax bill is about $20k/yr in a very tony area. However, in that same area for the same size lot there are 10 properties that pay around $6-8k/year... for about the same use of services (schooling very much included). Even more shocking is that a mixed use building taking up one of those smaller lots in the town centre area contributes about $15k/yr. And yet our zoning boards have hemmed in the commercial districts that just about everyone loves for retail-only use that gets far less per-sq foot than the core centre district.
How bad is it? In many of these towns it's impossible with current zoning regs to even replace aging structures. If that's not incompetence on a wide scale I really do not know what else is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTREInvestor
I've actually brought this topic up with people I've met in the neighborhood and at the few nice retail spots on Naugatuck Ave. There are newer retirees who are ambivalent, younger families who wish they could afford a larger home, and younger baby boomers/early Generation Xers who have children who are stuck sharing a housing at rents that are absurd. When I have mentioned that increasing the zoning density on Naugatuck Avenue would actually make it financially feasible to redevelop obviously failing businesses that contribute nothing to the tax base, not a single person has told me "No, we want to keep that Italian Bakery from 1960 that is rarely open but has a half acre parking lot".
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTREInvestor
A major reason the State has to get involved is it is far easier to influence a State representative than delve into Connecticut local municipal politics, where the incompetence is overwhelming, obvious corruption is widespread, and the sheer time required is beyond the reach of the working man.
Again, agree... with many of my clients, friends, developers dealing with those boards often does not feel like everything is on the up and up. Why I've kept my tongue in my mouth about mere rumours of specific nature but let me tell you there's "more than likely" members of those boards that LOVE 8-30g while railing it publicly. It's pretty obvious. Not to mention some of the private actors that try to kill any project via lawsuit (new detached SFH included, even basic remodels of existing structures) without hiking up the cost of building.
I seriously doubt that many here that defend the boards have much, if any, personal experience with these sultans of their fiefdoms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTREInvestor
Working in commercial real estate investing and development, I cannot imagine how things would be if the State did not enact a uniform building code. In fact, I would argue that the necessity of a unform state building code is ipso facto proof that the state should take over zoning regulations as well. Local governments could not be trusted to ensure housing and property was built safely, even when standards are well-established and published by several national and international professional organizations.
I'm not this far, but I believe there has to be a better enforcement mechanism for these boards to at least consider that the future is a real thing and plan for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTREInvestor
How can they be trusted with planning for the future so that it benefits everyone in the State? The former was a simple task and local government failed miserably. The latter requires foresight, knowledge of fundamental economics, and cooperation with neighboring communities and the State.
Just want to add, as you claim you're in Commercial RE and might be able to attest to what I've heard myself, is that almost all new moderately priced structures have been stunted. Glaringly local-scaled retail being the most underbuilt in CT in almost fifty years which has driven up rents and basically made it super difficult for entrepreneurs to get a foothold in this very under-satiated market. What has been built has benefitted large chains because the cost is so high the developers want a big name to get the financing needed to go through the needless hoops that the PNZ boards throw at them (and I do mean needless... not safety or wetland related. Just plain old red-tape).
And like I said, small retail is a huge portion of wealth generation and keeping the money flowing through local economies.
Depending on WFH, there might be a lot of office space that can be converted into apts.
Right. They're already starting that in Stamford. I'd expect to see that nationwide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
I don't think any place is really out of room for anything either you build left or right or you build up. Because the ground freezes you can't realistically build down. The only place I know in North America that builds down is Montreal. If you go the Midwest you'll find buildings that literally go on and on but there's no real incentive to build up. Once you start building buildings gone beyond a few floors then you have to figure in what happens when there's water issues and electrical issues and then elevators and Ada.
The coastal towns/cities are out of room on the main thoros. They'll start building up on 123 in New Canaan and they've alreasy starting building up 7 in Wilton. Atleast for now. Once the RE market cools and the demand subsides it may hinder any projects going forward.
Why would I put the name of anyone on a thread on a website that they don’t belong to?
Thanks for this, the internet can be a maelstrom and it's important not to feed it needlessly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetgirl2014
With that said, you can find many of us on zoom P&Z meetings every month. It’s not that hard- we are pretty open about it. And FYI- I’m not some dying boomer, I’m in my early 30s, a semi left leaning younger millennial, and I totally agree with Jay. Allow local governance of how affordable housing gets built with some deadlines set by the state, or allow the WestConn model. People don’t move to places like NC or Ridgefield or Wilton or Weston to live in apartments.
NC has had apartments since forever, same with Ridgefield, Wilton has gotten many last few decades, so only Weston really fits that bill. Regardless though, there are loads of reasons to not just allow apartments but a whole host of housing variety... some people don't like the responsibility or cost of maintaining a huge amount of property, or want to downsize after their children leave the roost, are starting out in professional life and want to be close to their job, like being close to an aging family member, or gasp want to be able to walk to get a carton of milk, the list goes on.
As well the other problem is as housing desires have changed, all those towns started to have inventory issues until the pandemic gave the pricing a shot in the arm... Many thought that it'd be a permanent shift back to those houses being desirable (let's even take away many were actually built cheap as can be in the 70s and 80s and are showing their issues). it's already going back to the more and more established pattern of the big homes just sitting on market more than the more affordable smaller units of almost every other variety. Last I checked the Pre-K enrollment numbers already started taking hits in many towns across CT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetgirl2014
They move there for space. If people want to live in downtown areas with less space, let’s build up those areas. There is a ton of space in both Stamford and Norwalk- awesome cities, that can easily be built up. Let’s put money into revitalizing and building up Bridgeport and make it a great city again. Let’s not tear town the charm of small towns and try to make everything a small city. That’s a great way to get people who moved there for the small town charm to leave the state. And frankly, those are the people footing the tax bills.
The problem is that at this point its not "either or" vis-a-vis to core municipality urban development... it's "both and." I feel a bit like Ibsen's Dr. Stockmann who is exposing an uncomfortable truth about what many hold to be the core of their prestige but really the problem is far bigger, and has been far bigger, than those that want to keep the status quo want to admit. However issues, as I've know myself as I ignore a slew of work emails as I type this, do not simply go away because it's too much to dive into now and handled in a logical manner.
Last edited by Beeker2211; 05-10-2022 at 07:51 AM..
I don't think any place is really out of room for anything either you build left or right or you build up. Because the ground freezes you can't realistically build down. The only place I know in North America that builds down is Montreal. If you go the Midwest you'll find buildings that literally go on and on but there's no real incentive to build up. Once you start building buildings gone beyond a few floors then you have to figure in what happens when there's water issues and electrical issues and then elevators and Ada.
Small-town charm doesn't exactly work. If you go to Easton Connecticut we've got plenty of space but the populations been dropping significantly. With respect to sewer lines yes they're of course is an upfront cost a long-term maintenance cost but when you start talking about the health inspection that goes on with septic tanks there can be other issues. In Massachusetts for example under the title 5 you cannot sell a house if there was a crack in the septic tank. I don't know if Connecticut has similar laws but I'd make a strong argument that you should not be able to wave the form of inspection if there is a septic tank. I personally know of a river in southeast Mass which was polluted significantly decades ago due to multiple cracks and septic tanks of properties all alongside it. If they had sewer it would not be an issue. There are issues all over Cape Cod with septic tanks. https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine...YNP/story.html
I actually tore the house to buy more than a year ago and there was a significant smell in my agent actually told me that there was some issue with either the septic the well or both I just got out of there and ran as fast as I could. I can trust Public Water Systems and sewer systems it's a huge leap of faith for me to trust a septic tank and a private well
One of my friends is dealing with septic issues on their family's property in a highly desirable location in a highly desirable town. The proposed cost is enormous to remediate, and might still have issues after work gets completed (new very well rationale wetland guidelines since the property was initially developed). It's an absolute nightmare.
Depending on WFH, there might be a lot of office space that can be converted into apts.
Many of the big employers in Stamford have already started to call back employees to more in-office work. While not 9-5 7days a week many of the desks can't be shared for obvious reasons.
Thanks for this, the internet can be a maelstrom and it's important not to feed it needlessly.
NC has had apartments since forever, same with Ridgefield, Wilton has gotten many last few decades, so only Weston really fits that bill. Regardless though, there are loads of reasons to not just allow apartments but a whole host of housing variety... some people don't like the responsibility or cost of maintaining a huge amount of property, or want to downsize after their children leave the roost, are starting out in professional life and want to be close to their job, like being close to an aging family member, or gasp want to be able to walk to get a carton of milk, the list goes on.
As well the other problem is as housing desires have changed, all those towns started to have inventory issues until the pandemic gave the pricing a shot in the arm... Many thought that it'd be a permanent shift back to those houses being desirable (let's even take away many were actually built cheap as can be in the 70s and 80s and are showing their issues). it's already going back to the more and more established pattern of the big homes just sitting on market more than the more affordable smaller units of almost every other variety. Last I checked the Pre-K enrollment numbers already started taking hits in many towns across CT.
The problem is that at this point its not "either or" vis-a-vis to core municipality urban development... it's "both and." I feel a bit like Ibsen's Dr. Stockmann who is exposing an uncomfortable truth about what many hold to be the core of their prestige but really the problem is far bigger, and has been far bigger, than those that want to keep the status quo want to admit. However issues, as I've know myself as I ignore a slew of work emails as I type this, do not simply go away because it's too much to dive into now and handled in a logical manner.
I hate this stupid website format. It makes it so annoying to respond on a phone.
Anyway- yes, those towns have apartments and townhomes and condos. Frankly, I don’t know many people in NC who are opposed to having more townhomes or apartments as long as they fit with the character of the town. That’s my major problem and most peoples major problem. Having a 4 or 5 story 100+ unit building in NC doesn’t fit at all with the town feel and it harms the property values of those nearby and destroys the character of the town. But this developer, who has straight up harassed people who have spoken against this, can come in because of the law and build whatever he wants- regardless of the fact that the majority of the apartments will be 1 million plus apartments that don’t sell very quick/at all (his last building which finished 3 years ago still has apartments for sale that have never been lived in). So he is gonna make money on the units he does sell while destroying the character of the town. And he doesn’t care because he bought the 2.5 acre property for like 2 million? I think? And he is being allowed to build 100+ units. It’s insane. Insane.
So yea, people do live in condos and apartments in places like NC/Ridgefield etc… but considering there are still apartments for sale that haven’t sold and there similarly priced or more ex pensive homes are being gobbled up in less than 24 hours- most people move to this town to have space. Everyone I know moved here to have space and get out of cities/apartments/small houses.
ETA: sorry if it’s a bit rambly. I have a 5 week old baby and am sleep deprived as anything.
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