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Oddly, all the women who are pretending to not know why this woman was picked do their best to look their most attractive to men. For no reason.
And that means they want to be yelled at, followed, repeatedly hassled by the same chumps, and scared? What are you saying, what point are you trying to make?
And that means they want to be yelled at, followed, repeatedly hassled by the same chumps, and scared? What are you saying, what point are you trying to make?
Are you sure you go to Berkeley? I see the activism and rage, but I thought you guys also had critical thinking skills.
And that doesn't mean we don't try and stop it. We will never get crime to zero, doesn't mean we disband the police and judicial system. There will always be pervs, doesn't mean we as a society don't try and reduce harassment.
Listen I think there were quite a few men on this video being jerks but I disagree with how we are observing this video. We are so focused on what's wrong that we never see what the solution is. No one is acknowledging the guys who were respectful or the fact that she ignored them too. I say if you are really sincere about creating 'social norms' then talk about what should be done. This is coming off as men bashing. I am sorry I do not act like this and I get tired of a few jerks being made examples of how all men act and then the good ones get ignored.
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Originally Posted by NOLA101
I already answered your question, and twice already. Obviously I would let my daughter walk down the street wearing normal clothes, just like this woman. The woman isn't doing a thing out of the ordinary.
For the millionth time, the woman's dress, demeanor, walk, location, butt size, etc. are completely irrelevant. Men should stop harassing women, period. Not cool.
I respectfully disagree. The fact that this woman has her measurements on her site shows that they knew she would attract attention. For a woman with her shape, her clothes are revealing whether that is intentional or not.
With that said, if your hypothetical daughter went through this, what would you do, if anything? Give her advice? Go talk to the men?
Oddly, all the women who are pretending to not know why this woman was picked do their best to look their most attractive to men. For no reason.
What does wanting to look attractive have to do with anything?
Can these men manage to not behave like this, or not? Why can't society put more pressure on these men to stop doing this? It's clearly not appreciated. There are plenty of other circumstances and situations where women can be flattered and get attention IF THEY WANT IT, but when hastily walking down the street while wearing dark clothes is not it. Women who are hustling down the street, doing their business, have no need to be told "Have a nice day!" 50 freaking times a day.
No, it's not the worst thing in the world to say "Have a nice day!" but after a while a pattern develops and it gets very old.
No matter what the behavior is, if it's not something that is so vital to survival to do, and if people are informed about how unappreciated and unwelcome it is (and that's what these videos are about--to make it clear that this behavior is unwelcome) then anyone who persists in doing it is doing it BECAUSE they know the effect it has.
If someone said to me, "Don't snap your fingers, it bothers me so much" and I don't have a compulsion to snap fingers, but just like to, and I keep doing it in front of that person, after knowing that, I'm doing it because I know how they will react. I like that they react that way. That becomes the reason why I do it.
You made what looks like an off-topic post. I was hoping you'd have a contribution to make to the discussion. We've finally started to make some progress in figuring out why the harassment in the vid is happening, the psychology behind it. Did you have something to add?
Well, it may not have affected how you see race but it certainly did for me. When I was younger (and even sometimes now) blacks/hispanics were BY FAR the worst offenders, which made me hate them with a passion. It got to the point where when one would hit on me I'd tell them "Sorry, I only date within my own species!"; the look on their faces were always priceless! Soon as I moved to a good majority white area the harassment subsided CONSIDERABLY.
NYC has equal opportunity harassment--just as many white guys do it.
This kind of attention scares the hell out of women. The kind of attention women hope for is people being appropriately friendly at appropriate times. These points were covered on this thread hours ago, pages ago. Being approached at a bus stop by someone who's also waiting for the bus was one example given. Being chatted up in the grocery store. But not repeatedly hassled, like some of the dudes in the video did. Those guys ignored body language, some kept talking to her even though it was obvious she wasn't gonna stop and wasn't into them. That's the intimidating part that scares women, is when dudes don't get the message, and keep bugging 'em, and don't stop. Or worse, follow them.
Women don't want this kind of attention, they don't find it flattering. There have been a couple of threads hashing all that out on the Relationships forum. Women see this type of attention as threatening and offensive.
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Originally Posted by Enigma777
It does not seem to happen in other countries (except maybe in parts of Italy). I've been in a number of European cities by myself and this just did not happen. I always felt much safer as well--it really does make a difference in your feeling of safety if people are not hassling you when you are just walking down the street. I did meet and talk to both men and women in different environments through casual conversation--in cafes, parks, on trains, but nobody hit on me in the streets, no catcalls or pickup lines. There is a difference and I do believe it is cultural.
Guys who attempt to hit on you in the street here also seem overly sensitive, and if you keep walking and ignore their comments, they often make some louder snotty remark.
These two posts touch well on a key point. Based on the actions of the male who has noticed the female and wants to do something about it, does she feel vulnerable and/or unsafe?
There is nothing wrong with males noticing attractive women, or talking to them, even if they are hoping that it might end in sex. Nothing wrong with that at all, in and of itself. The question is...does the male see her as a prospect or an object? And by "object" I don't just mean "thing," I mean goal to attain and conquer regardless of what she may think about it, whether that be by persuasion or trickery or even force...and if she does the unthinkable and refuses, then it is cause for rage, anger, loss of self esteem to the guy, a reason to "fight back" with nastiness? A man who is secure enough to know that there are plenty of fish in the sea can make a polite comment, then read her body language to see if she's still cool, and go from there...and if she's not cool, he just moves on. A guy who isn't prepared to accept a no and move on starts to come off as "creepy" (or more accurately, threatening) pretty quickly, because women are conditioned by parents, society, media, the news, SVU reruns, what have you, to be on the alert to threats to our safety.
We don't know you. We don't know if you're a nice guy who is just bitter about rejection. We don't know you from Adam, so you could be a predator, or not, we don't know! All we've got to go on are the cues you give us.
Nothing to do with attractiveness from my perspective, although some chicks are snotty about it (just like some guys are genuinely scary for good reason and some not, people are a mixed bag.) I've had really old men, ugly men, hit on me at the bar when I'm there to shoot pool with my league...and I smile and tell them thank you, but I'm married. If I weren't married I'd find a variation of the "I'm flattered but not on the market." If they are just friendly, I can usually tell and we can go on to talk about something else. If they repeat five seconds later something like "honey, you are so hot" then I'm gonna go hang out by my husband and tell him that guy is creeping me...I will consider that threatening. He obviously sees me as an object, not the prospect that just denied him. That is a lack of decency and respect. Men like that sometimes even think that if they could beat a woman's dude in a fight, they could "have her." Like we are acting out Wild freaking Kingdom right there at the bar...no thank you.
Obviously some women are more defensive than others, feel more vulnerable, or feel harrassed more easily. And some males are not socialized enough to know how to act. As for it having to do with culture or class, I agree kind of but not totally. What about that rich white boy who ran the car through the sorority because he was entitled to sex that no woman wanted to give him? What about the young black man whose strong Momma taught him respect for women and how to act right? Sometimes it's all about the upbringing...and no race or class is exempt from having some bad apples in the barrel.
Too funny--and it pretty much sums up this discussion.
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