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I don't consider them martyrs either. I don't believe anyone said they were.
Both were murdered by police officers with one's death filmed for the world to see.
No one's called them martyrs, but neither one of their crimes warranted an execution.
Exactly.
From most accounts, Mike Brown seems like he was basically a jerk. I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with him. Eric Garner less so; he seems to have been generally well-regarded in the neighborhood, and his arrest record reflects the fact that he was a poor black guy who grew up and lived in NYC with the "broken windows" school of thought in law enforcement. Broken windows theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In any case, neither deserved to die by any means. Our legal system has civil, misdemeanor, and felony tiers (among others) for a reason. You can't be sentenced to death in a court for selling loose cigarettes or shoplifting. That the same courts seem to be complicit in police officers handing out death penalties for these actions is beyond excuse.
I just can't understand why people are in an uproar about these two. Both would still be alive had they just followed directions.
I see so many clueless people protesting over these two....when legitimate tragedies are happening every night.
Why aren't people in an uproar over what happened to this little girl ? Why isn't Jackson, Sharpton and others rallying thru the hood over tragedies like this ?
Protesting over all the violence in the hoods I can understand... but sadly that seems to be ignored. 7 years old and paralyzed by a bullet, fundraiser planned for In - Fox 2 News Headlines
Eric Garner didn't have any violent criminal convictions. Arrests for suspicions of violent crimes, yes. But there was a time in American history where smugglers and tax-thwarters were the heroes of this country for standing up to tyranny. Some of them even fought off royal navy ships or beat up soldiers on the streets of Boston, for which they were immortalized in local papers as asserting their rights. Now, we expect polite compliance with authority. What happened?
Agreed. Because we all should go back over 200+ years ago when blacks were still slaves and women could not vote.
With the recent events of police of whats been going on with Eric Garner and Mike Brown, I have been silent about these sensitive and very frustrating issues. Since I try to be as pragmatic as possible about these issues rather than jump the gun and be too liberal or conservative. There's no secret that police brutality and racism is very real, very alive and very active. I don't care if you're White, Black, whatever, its real, its evident and if you don't think so you're probably some very privileged White person who doesn't understand any struggle and much less the struggle of people in lower economic backgrounds and especially non-white poor peoples struggle or you're just delusional.
Nice assumptions and sweeping generalizations with that comment. You proclaim something to be true, and those who might not agree with you are not only wrong in your mind, but you assume what type of people they must be to disagree with your wisdom.
Lets first start with the definition of racism. What most people in America experience in the year 2014 is not systemic racism, though limited examples of what some people experience can be classified that way. Just compare us with other countries with real racial strife and racism and you will see my point.
When there are cases of suspected/assumed racism in America, the liberal news media blows it out of proportion and purposely frames the story to imply it.
For instance, they only mention the race of the police and suspects when the police are white and the suspects are black. Clearly since most police are white, and a disproportional number of blacks are criminals (per capita), you are going to have frequent encounters between them. To look at this through a different lens, how often do you here or read about the race of a suspect and their victim when the suspect is black and the victim is white?
Some news executives have admitted to purposely leaving that info out so as to not have the public assume blacks are more inclined to commit crimes.
Yet they have no trouble painting police as potential racist whenever there is an encounter they can frame a certain way to get ratings. Michael Brown is the perfect example, and so was Trayvon Martin in the way they showed pictures of him as a little boy, doctored the 911 tapes, described Zimmerman as white, etc.
As the OP you mention so called "white privilege", and while I think I understand what you and some others might mean by that, there is plenty of black privilege if we are going to make a comparison. Remember blacks as a minority are considered a protected class of people, and get all sorts of assistance that whites cannot. Many whites in this country are poor and uneducated, but do not get the same help that is available to blacks.
Also many people without spines fear PC and are afraid to be critical of blacks even when they mess up.
So yes, Brown nor Garner should be held as martyrs, but to use these two incidents to say racism is alive and well feeds a false and divisive narrative. Frankly our countries culture is in trouble when this is the way Obama runs his administration;
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This country is in worse shape racially than when Obama was elected. He was suppose to be a "post racial president", but he and the people he put into his administration like Eric Holder have divided people by race, class, gender, etc., like no other president in my lifetime.
With the recent events of police of whats been going on with Eric Garner and Mike Brown, I have been silent about these sensitive and very frustrating issues. Since I try to be as pragmatic as possible about these issues rather than jump the gun and be too liberal or conservative. There's no secret that police brutality and racism is very real, very alive and very active. I don't care if you're White, Black, whatever, its real, its evident and if you don't think so you're probably some very privileged White person who doesn't understand any struggle and much less the struggle of people in lower economic backgrounds and especially non-white poor peoples struggle or you're just delusional.
Its NOT to say all police are bad and corrupt. I have 2 friends and a family member in the police force and they are genuine people who join the force because they want to make a change in any way they can. And my experiences with police have been okay since I tend to interact with them in polite and intelligent matter. On the flip side, yes, I have also had experiences with policemen who aren't the most model citizen. This isn't my point though.
Growing up in the inner cities of NYC, I know how people in the ghetto can be. There's always this "no snitching" policy amongst the goons and the people who fear and/or look up to them. And there's DEFINITELY a huge mistrust with police. Its a hard situation to comment on because I have seen police activity at its worse and finest and I can understand why some don't have faith in the police. On the same token, I feel a lot (key word: A LOT, NOT ALL) people in the ghetto make it hard for police. These goons, thugs, hooligans always want to flaunt how "big and bad" they are, terrorize the neighborhood, sell dope, crack and other drugs, ruin their surrounding environment and make it hard for the people in the ghetto who DO work, go to school and make an honest living.
They're the first to shoot rap videos, sag their pants, do all sorts of suspicious activity but once confronted, caught, busted by a police officer for selling drugs or just simply for violating certain laws (I.E. loitering in front of the buildings or bodegas/delis/markets, whatever you choose to call it) they have to make a big stink out of it and complain they're being treated unfairly. And like the lots of zombies they are, the people who support these scum join in on protesting that cops are treating them unfairly.
I'm bringing this up because this is the case of Eric Garner and Mike Brown. I have also been hesitant because I know its a very sensitive subject and some people can't seem to use logic with such sensitive topics. However, not to say they should have died or that they deserved too but I really don't understand and I am highly exasperated that they are being martyrs. Many might argue that they are being martyrs because it show cases police brutality and I can understand that. Either way, I at least feel the Mike Brown case is just all sorts of convoluted and Eric Garner...Well, I'll get to that.
What exasperates me is that ESPECIALLY the White, liberal, hippie protesters-first of all-wouldn't want anything to do with Mike Brown or Eric Garner if they knew them in real life. And Mike Brown and Eric Garner wouldn't give two craps about them. Yet, all these White, liberal, hippies want to act like they would have held hands and sang kumbaya with these low lives.
If Mike Brown would have went into your store robbed any of you White hippies, physically harassed, you'll be the first to send for the man. And Eric Garner, a man with 30 prior arrest--some which consist of assault and grand larceny--is the type of man you wouldn't want marching about in your nice gentrified neighborhoods. And Erice Garner simply shouldn't have tried to resist arrest. I have seen people like him in the hood who continuously sell drugs or do other illegal activities time and time again, and every time they are confronted by the police, they resist arrest, scream they are being "abused" and then make a big case out of it.
And it baffles me how the Latinos and Black people of the inner cities make goons like this martyrs. Its not like these guys were future Martin Luther King Jrs's, Roy Innis's are some political and/or civil rights activist, humanitarian who were vested in the future and betterment of the current and next generations of Blacks, Latinos or everyone for that matter and were gunned down or assassinated. Nor was it like it was some completely innocent man who didn't do anything at all (even if he did have checkered past) and was gunned down or choked out without any good reason. Like the guy in Brooklyn who got gunned down in the staircase because the cop got "spooked".
Its not to say they deserved to die but its also very tiring that guys like this, who I am 90% sure, if they were alive wouldn't give 2 flying fits about anyone who is out there protesting for them-would be worrying about you.
Its a frustrating topic to discuss because these issues further divide the country and divert us from the many other sinister issues that are at hand in this country. We shouldn't be so blind but instead try to understand both sides of the issue.
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This country is in worse shape racially than when Obama was elected. He was suppose to be a "post racial president", but he and the people he put into his administration like Eric Holder have divided people by race, class, gender, etc., like no other president in my lifetime.`
Obama Pre-Presidency appears to have specialized in Activism and race division much like an Al Sharpton.
That is all the leadership skills he developed since he's never worked in the real world.
I don't consider them martyrs either. I don't believe anyone said they were.
Both were murdered by police officers with one's death filmed for the world to see.
No one's called them martyrs, but neither one of their crimes warranted an execution.
The facts dispute that conclusion.
No Murder Indictment Possible:
>>>|||||<<<
● MURDER : (Law) the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
● MANSLAUGHTER : (Law) The unlawful killing of one human by another without express or implied intent to do injury.
● HOMICIDE : (Law) the killing of a human being by another person.
● RESISTING ARREST : (Law) physical efforts to oppose a lawful arrest; the resistance is classified as assault and battery upon the person of the police officer attempting to make the arrest.
● SELF DEFENSE : (Law) The right to protect oneself against violence or threatened violence with whatever force or means are reasonably necessary.
● AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE : An affirmative defense to a civil lawsuit or criminal charge is a fact or set of facts other than those alleged by the plaintiff or prosecutor which, if proven by the defendant, defeats or mitigates the legal consequences of the defendant's otherwise unlawful conduct. In criminal prosecutions, examples of affirmative defenses are self defense, insanity, and the statute of limitations.
. . .
The police did not "MURDER" anyone in these two cases.
. . .
It's not the initial crime that is the problem, it's the subsequent behavior.
Once one is resisting arrest, he is engaged in a FELONY. He is engaged in assault and battery of the police officer(s). Their response can escalate accordingly.
Thus the police have self defense as part of their affirmative defense against a charge of homicide.
. . .
The moral : when arrested DO NOT RESIST.
Do not argue. Do not flail arms. Do not attempt to escape.
Fight in court, not in the street.
Brown charged the armed police officer with intent to do harm. He'd already beat the cop and tried to shoot him with his own gun. The shooting by the cop was warranted and justified.
Eric Garner's crime was selling loose cigarettes and not charging or paying tax on them. Jaywalking is also a crime. Do we want police doing to repeat jaywalkers what they did to Garner?
Martyrs? Heck no. Just the use of that word associated with their names makes me want to laugh. Hard.
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