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I still don't get this whole flag thing. I understand that 150+ years ago the flag was a symbol of the South and part of their culture and economy prior to losing the Civil War was to own and work black slaves.
The slaves were property, oppressed and some were maltreated by their owners. Some of course were prized property like a fine horse and were treated better.
We have seen this on the big screen recently in such movies as "Django unchained" and "12 Years a Slave".
The Nazis had their flag that struck terror into anyone that didn't fit in. There are actually people still alive today that remember what living in a concentration camp was like or they may have lost loved ones.
My wife is Irish and she is old enough to remember what it was like living under the opprresive union jack of the England. She has relatives that were held, questioned and imprisoned as political prisoners.
As a result of her first hand experience she doesn't like to see the British flag but she is not demanding that it be taken down when she sees one.
If the Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery to some we are talking about 150+ years ago.
My point is that there are flags all over the place that stir a negative feeling in someone.
I wonder how the Native American Indians feel about the American Flag as it flies over land that was once theirs??
This woman who climbed the pole should be fined for trespassing and the flag put back up until there is a law made to take it down.
So do we then ban serving alchohol in public buildings and spaces because it will symbolize to millions of recovering alchohlics bad memories, family members killed in drunk driving accidents, etc.? Should unhealthy junk food be banned because of all the health problems/suffering it has caused in families and reminding people of that when they smell/see it walking past a restaurant or grocery store?
I think we are on a dangerous slippery slope here, selectively banning things that some find offensive. Where does it end and who decides? Heck, I find some things offensive displayed in public places but I don't feel it's my business to push that belief on others. Part of the "cost" of living in a free society...well, not so much free anymore...
Steve, I agree with this post!! I've been making this point all along in this thread. What if someones t-shirt offends? Will we be walking around in plain shirts? Some people are offended by all these giant crosses. Do they need taken down?
Also, you can't just pick on one part of history. Washington was a slave owner, yes it was legal. But he still owned a human. Our nation's capitol is named after a slave owner. If one monument of a slave owner comes down, they all must come down. Damn this PC society!!
And while burning Confederate flags is legal, stealing them from yards or public spaces — which many prospective “challengers” have promised to do — is obviously not.
This woman who climbed the pole should be fined for trespassing and the flag put back up until there is a law made to take it down.
She was arrested along with the person helping her. I assume she's cooling her jets and yelling revolution at the walls in the Richland county jail now. A state worker replaced the flag a short time later.
As for being a "hero", I suppose that's in the eyes of the beholder. LOL.
As I pointed out in the part of my post that you conveniently ignored because you have no answer for those uncomfortable facts, the South hardly stood for any sort of liberty that the Union lacked. Southern apologists whine that secession was legal under the federal Constitution, yet the Confederate constitution was largely a copy of the federal one and took no more pains to forbid secession - but the South nonetheless moved to crush the secession of eastern Tennessee from the Confederacy to rejoin the Union. And Southern apologists bleat to no end about the right of states to make their own choices regarding slavery, yet the Confederate constitution explicitly forbid any state from ever banning slavery within its borders. So much for the South giving one whit about the states' rights.
I believe in personal liberty, and do not recognize the ownership of another human being. But the Confederacy explicitly did not believe in the rights of states to make their own choices about slavery or to secede from the Confederacy, for the reasons I cited above. So don't make laughably inapplicable analogies.
The South was traitorous. It attacked Fort Sumter and initiated war with the Union. It got its ass handed to it, and instead of picking itself up and moving on it has spent 150 years petulantly whining about the so-called Lost Cause.
It's high time it grew up and joined the 21st century.
It absolutely amazes me that there are still contemporary human beings who wish the South would have won. Makes me wonder just how much progress in racial justice an independent South would have made. State's rights was a feel good reason for the war, sounds better than just admitting that they went to war because an administration belong to what at the time was basically a single issue party that campaigned on an abolitionist platform. Whenever it was in the landowners interests to violate the concept of states rights they did so without reservation...the Fugitive Slave Act, aside from being amoral, was one of the great over reached of federal power in our history, and it was largely responsible for the huge increase in northern angioplasty sentiment preceding the war.
Yes, there were border slave states, but they represented a small fraction of the Union state's and Lincoln had to walk a bit of a tightrope to win the war, (Wahington DC would have been surrounded if it had went, as it nearly did, Lincoln had to sneak through the state on the at to his first inaugural), Kentucky had several hundred miles of frontage on the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers...vital transport routes in the steamboat era, etc) but slavery there too was dealt with immediately after the war was won. With northern victory a brutal form of oppression ended, the Confederate constitution expressly prohibited states from banning slavery...apparently that was something that the Confederate leadership cared strongly about.
Last edited by robertbrianbush; 06-27-2015 at 02:32 PM..
Steve, I agree with this post!! I've been making this point all along in this thread. What if someones t-shirt offends? Will we be walking around in plain shirts? Some people are offended by all these giant crosses. Do they need taken down?
Also, you can't just pick on one part of history. Washington was a slave owner, yes it was legal. But he still owned a human. Our nation's capitol is named after a slave owner. If one monument of a slave owner comes down, they all must come down. Damn this PC society!!
Right on/great points mbalmedpoet!
It escapes me when the point we are trying to make is not understood and the emotional cries of "take it down!" herd mentality is all we hear takes over. We are making a high level point here, beyond the confederate flag. I can't help but think people either:
1.) Can't understand/grasp the logic on the snowball running down hill issue in all of this.
-or-
2.) They understand this yet just want to think selfishly because a symbol/view doesn't work for them so heck, in such a case, ban it...it doesn't work for me, so it won't work for anybody! The irony is someday when this escalates into something they believe in and is under consideration to be banned, I can guarantee they'll be the 1st people to whine about it. And loudly. The world revolves around more than a few "me me me!" types these days. Sad
Gotta give her some credit for climbing that pole and not falling. With someone like that, hard to know if she is really that angry or just trying to get attention. Considering she looks old enough to have climbed that pole for many years and take it down in protest but she waited until now to do it makes me think she's doing it for personal attention.
I'm surprised more people haven't just started burning the confederate flag outside the capital
Because the vast majority of people in Columbia don't care enough to bother. It's not even that noticeable where they put it unless you are looking for it.
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