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You can't speak statistically about that scenario. I'm a 'by the numbers' type, so it's hard for me to wrap my head around 'what if' scenarios like that.
I am a numbers guy as well, or so many who know me will be quick to confirm, but I think you miss the obvious here, with or without the numbers...
We can't possibly know how many people (with good or bad intent) do not bring guns into a gun screened area as a result of knowing there is that screen. Like at the airport, be reasonable. Surely you know and/or have to admit that a metal detector is a pretty solid deterrent that keeps guns from crossing that line of screening. Do you need numbers to be convinced of that? I surely hope not, but if so, please confirm before I consider this argument any further.
Or maybe simply look at the money being spent to provide that sort of security, whether at the airports or entertainment centers, like concert arenas, and call all those folks putting up the money for that security somehow not justified for doing so. Maybe you know better? I don't think so, numbers readily available for that or not.
Can't really know, by the numbers, how many kids would have drowned had they not been taught to swim before getting in the water, but really? We need numbers to figure out whether these preventative measures are worthy?
Good we quantify where/when possible, certainly where/when necessary, but not always.
Hopefully we can agree on that as most people do I think...
You missed the point of the analogy. You could deconstruct any analogy by finding a difference, but do you honestly think that's what they meant?
I understood his point perfectly, he was making the analogy that people die in car accidents and both are just tools that are worth the collateral damage. Guns are quite more than just tools.
How many people die driving to the movie theatre? The debate isn't whether guns will have lethal accidents. The debate is whether it is a useful tool or not in the hand of citizens.
Lots of people like to use cars as an analogy when it comes to gun control, but there are too many holes in those analogies for argument sake to take all too much time considering them. Still, here's the problem with this one...
First, I don't think anyone knows how many people die driving to the movie theater, and of course cars are not necessarily the cause of those deaths in any case. Always, it is what people do with their cars or guns that is either a problem or not.
Now, we can't control whether someone gets behind the wheel drunk, but to prevent as much of that from going on as possible, we have laws that put people in jail for driving drunk. That, most people agree, helps to reduce incidents of drunk-driving related accidents and deaths, regardless how many such deaths occur as a percentage of total auto-vehicle related deaths. That is also a law that only makes sense for purposes of "sending the right message." Without such laws, people assume the activity is okay, and of course this is not the case.
Similarly, the idea behind "gun free zones" in theaters, airports and the like, is to prevent accidents and deaths caused by people with guns, like this case of this idiot "fumbling" with his gun in a theater. Regardless what percentage those incidents represent as a percentage of all incidents, there are some things we can do to reduce the injury and death counts. Especially in these cases where measures can be put in place to prevent such incidents (of gun violence in general), most people figure best to do so if possible. There certainly wasn't much debate when it came to doing so at airports, and for the same reason(s) we now see the pressure to broaden the presence of screened "gun free zones."
Here again are the counts for what they are worth, whether you feel the numbers are acceptable to us as a society or not...
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000), 21,175 by suicide with a firearm, 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent" for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.
PS: Maybe people just want to watch a movie in peace with no guns in the place, period. Maybe silence those cell phones too...
More importantly did we ever find out what movie they were there to see? You know maybe it was one of those violent shoot'em up types with lots of blood and gore and killing... that has an impact too you know
YEah, if you read the article you would have learned that the movie was 13 Hours. An homage to Hilary Clinton's biggest failure as SoS, in which 4 American are murdered because she wouldn't send aid to them.
Some theaters, not all theaters. MrsM and I will not fo to a show where we cant carry
That said. In this case, it is the drunk ahole behind the gun. Do we even know if he has a CCW? Does he legally own the gun?
With, or without, a CCW, the shooter is at fault!
And my fervent hope is that this idiot's name gets out and he gets "educated" on just how much his stupidity splashes onto those of us who are conscientious and responsible gun owners and conceal carriers. Dude needs a serious slap upside the head!
I agree with your statement except for what I highlighted. I carry in condition 1 ( Condition 1 carry vs the “Israeli Method” | the things worth believing in ) all of the time. But I do have a holster with trigger coverage, my safety configuration is completely different and I do not pull out my weapon except for cleaning, dry fire practice or actual shooting.
That's a good point and I stand corrected - a chambered round is not necessarily a sign of negligence.
I don't keep one in because I use a Springfield XD-9 subcompact. No thumb safety. And I keep it in a purse.
Lots of people like to use cars as an analogy when it comes to gun control, but there are too many holes in those analogies for argument sake to take all too much time considering them. Still, here's the problem with this one...
First, I don't think anyone knows how many people die driving to the movie theater, and of course cars are not necessarily the cause of those deaths in any case. Always, it is what people do with their cars or guns that is either a problem or not.
Now, we can't control whether someone gets behind the wheel drunk, but to prevent as much of that from going on as possible, we have laws that put people in jail for driving drunk. That, most people agree, helps to reduce incidents of drunk-driving related accidents and deaths, regardless how many such deaths occur as a percentage of total auto-vehicle related deaths. That is also a law that only makes sense for purposes of "sending the right message." Without such laws, people assume the activity is okay, and of course this is not the case.
Similarly, the idea behind "gun free zones" in theaters, airports and the like, is to prevent accidents and deaths caused by people with guns, like this case of this idiot "fumbling" with his gun in a theater. Regardless what percentage those incidents represent as a percentage of all incidents, there are some things we can do to reduce the injury and death counts. Especially in these cases where measures can be put in place to prevent such incidents (of gun violence in general), most people figure best to do so if possible. There certainly wasn't much debate when it came to doing so at airports, and for the same reason(s) we now see the pressure to broaden the presence of screened "gun free zones."
Here again are the counts for what they are worth, whether you feel the numbers are acceptable to us as a society or not...
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000), 21,175 by suicide with a firearm, 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent" for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.
PS: Maybe people just want to watch a movie in peace with no guns in the place, period. Maybe silence those cell phones too...
I was next to you yesterday in the grocery store. Did you feel threatened?
Ohhh But maybe you could ask Mr. Reeves ( retired Police Chief ) who shot and killed war vet in theatre (Beeeeee cause he was in fear for his life from Popcorn)...LOL..
Anyway, doesn't matter...when someone owns a firearm..legally..it's their responsibility ( and yes even LE Officers as well) but far too many use the old excuse "Fear for my life" excuse....while the one they were so SACRDEYCAT of was unarmed..DEAD..and No injury to shooter..and no witnesses to say..That guy HAD TO DO IT type thing ( LE reports ( many many times have been proven to be less than honest IMO) ..
I guess allowing by law to bring into BAR/Alcohol embedding environment..with loaded firearm..and when a person drinking has a known hair trigger snap anger issues ( Track Palin as just one example) which often leads to threats,abuse/killings while under influence!! And NO PTSD is NO Excuse for such behaviour..despite what Sarah Palin says
Most drinkers are NOT Angry Drunks/unstable..as most just become mello..Happy..and hopefully know their limits...Long before they get Outright Nasty!!!
Bars or anywhere Alcohol is served should Never allow Firearms on premise!! Too many unknowns!!
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Good question?
