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Well no one should have a gun on them if they do not have any training in shooting it. That's just common sense.
My point was more that, with the talk of guns that would actually have a chance of being effective against a charging bear, people in general seem to be missing the point that many people simply are not *capable* of handling these larger caliber pistols.
Yup, it's all well and good to carry a .44 or whatever larger caliber gun, but if one doesn't have the ability and capability to actually use it effectively, they'd be better off throwing it at the bear.
So, yes, in many cases, bear spray is what should be carried.
Marsha, here is a very good video displaying the stalking behavior a bear can exhibit. This thing was following at a distance for a while, and then progressively got more "curious" to come closer.
Most experts agree that this bear's behavior was "curious" but predatory in nature. Not all charges are full blown charges. This bear was relatively young people believe which could have helped result in this behavior.
This would have been an excellent opportunity to use bear spray though as a deterrent.
So did you just turn around and head the other direction? It's also possible you happened to cross its path by coincidence.
We had been on a trail, then just backtracked down the trail to the road. The bear had come out from the woods where the trail was & it was on the road, basically an abandoned logging road. I didn't have any spray with me, & my dog was frenzied, which is why I decided to relocate. My instinct told me to leave...don't like sounding like a nervous nellie, but the feeling that I had to get out of there was strong. The fact that it got up on its hindquarters, then didn't turn & go away, with me yelling at it, plus my dog barking, freaked me out.
Last edited by MarciaMarshaMarcia; 10-06-2016 at 11:35 AM..
My point was more that, with the talk of guns that would actually have a chance of being effective against a charging bear, people in general seem to be missing the point that many people simply are not *capable* of handling these larger caliber pistols.
Yup, it's all well and good to carry a .44 or whatever larger caliber gun, but if one doesn't have the ability and capability to actually use it effectively, they'd be better off throwing it at the bear.
So, yes, in many cases, bear spray is what should be carried.
One who lacks adequate training and practice, should reconsider whether carrying a gun is the correct solution.
I have enough training and practice that I can draw and put two shots in center mass (from the hip) in under two seconds, in six seconds I can empty a magazine or cylinder. I typically carry either a .45 auto, a .357mag or a .44mag. I might be a tad slower with follow-up shots using the .44mag, as it's a snub-nose and the muzzle has a tendency to climb more than the others...but I think the more powerful cartridge more than makes up for the slower rate of fire.
There's a Winchester 30-30 and .401SL handy if I'm near the house and can afford the extra time and longer range.
Bears are an every-day concern for me, as I keep bees and the local bears think that is a lovely snack.
ETA: If the guy in the OPs article still had his pistol in the holster, and went for the spray first, he was wrong. If he had time to deploy the spray, he had time to use the pistol. I know which one *I* would choose first, he knows what the 'correct' choice should have been...now. (Note, the OPs original link did not mention a pistol, a subsequent NY Times article I found did mention the pistol, but only that it had been "knocked away", it is unclear whether it was out or still holstered.)
If you really object to carrying guns (is this even legal in a National Park?) you might consider a "boar spear". It amounts to a heavy walking stick with a 18" blade backed by a crossbar on a 6' pole. If attacked ground the butt of the spear and let the attacker run itself on the blade. The crossbar keeps it from getting all the way up the spear to you. Generations of people have used these things on wild pigs so I think it should work on bears.
As I do not object to guns I would carry a short barreled 12 or 10 ga. recoil action semi auto shot gun with heavy slugs.
My point was more that, with the talk of guns that would actually have a chance of being effective against a charging bear, people in general seem to be missing the point that many people simply are not *capable* of handling these larger caliber pistols.
Yup, it's all well and good to carry a .44 or whatever larger caliber gun, but if one doesn't have the ability and capability to actually use it effectively, they'd be better off throwing it at the bear.
So, yes, in many cases, bear spray is what should be carried.
It should be implied that I'm talking about those that CAN holster and fire this type of weapon. I shouldn't have to clarify that.
And as stated earlier, I do not disagree people should carry bear spray.
Location: When you take flak it means you are on target
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Not against bear spray, but I'm not one to stand around waiting for it to work. A Glock 10 a trained person should be able to get off 2-6 accurate shots inside 5 seconds. Where I train the graduation standard is to draw and fire two shots from a concealed holster at 5 yards in 1.6 seconds with 9mm or .45. A big caliber revolver will be slower.
A Mossy 500 or Rem 870 is probably the best choice, though a semi auto has the advantage of faster follow up shots. But this would not be a good time for a jam. I sometimes wonder if a double barrel coach gun might not be best. Two hits will probably stop it, a two second reload and two more most likely will finish it. Or not.
It charged from 80 yards away. At about 25 feet he used Bear Spray with no success. The Bear kept charging. He had a holstered pistol, but it was torn from him in the attack.
After the first attack, about 10 minutes later the same bear was heard coming through the brush again and attacked him once more.
He was very fortunate this thing didn't catch an artery with it's teeth. He managed to hike 3 miles to his truck to drive himself to the hospital. How Ambulance crews were not enroute to meet him is beyond me as he called the hospital to tell him he was coming.
As an avid outdoorsy type of guy, I've been researching bears quite a lot. There is a very real danger when in Grizzly territory. I don't think bear spray is enough protection honestly. He probably should have just used the gun if the bear was in an all out charge. (sorry if this offends the gallery). Bear spray works as a deterrent if they are not in charge mode. Many examples of this.
People need to respect that these animals can do some serious harm to them, and for Grizzley's it's almost always due to protection of cubs or to protect their territory. If they're out of hibernation early, there is a very real threat for them attacking for the sake of food, which is what happened to Tim Treadwell and his wife.
This attack was for the protection of the cubs, so when the threat was neutralized (he played dead), the mother bear moved on. If it had been for food, he would have not been so lucky.
SN.. for Black bear attacks, do not play dead as they are scavengers and could see it as an easy meal. They have different defense/attack instincts than Grizzly's. There are more situations of them biting people as they are asleep in tents, hammocks, etc. They are more likely to be scared off by making yourself "big" yelling at it. They are more likely to "bluff" charge". Usually if a Grizzly is coming it is the real thing. They can climb a tree in one or two seconds, so DO NOT climb a tree. They are much better. Always face the black bear without looking directly into its eyes as they attack from behind generally (as most animals do). Obviously with either (or any animal for that fact), no not run as this is viewed from their perspective as you are the prey to be chased.
Both will attack to protect the cubs though. Both are less likely to attack if you are in large groups, but no guarantee.
The bear must have liked the taste of him, from the first time.
It charged from 80 yards away. At about 25 feet he used Bear Spray with no success. The Bear kept charging. He had a holstered pistol, but it was torn from him in the attack.
After the first attack, about 10 minutes later the same bear was heard coming through the brush again and attacked him once more.
He was very fortunate this thing didn't catch an artery with it's teeth. He managed to hike 3 miles to his truck to drive himself to the hospital. How Ambulance crews were not enroute to meet him is beyond me as he called the hospital to tell him he was coming.
As an avid outdoorsy type of guy, I've been researching bears quite a lot. There is a very real danger when in Grizzly territory. I don't think bear spray is enough protection honestly. He probably should have just used the gun if the bear was in an all out charge. (sorry if this offends the gallery). Bear spray works as a deterrent if they are not in charge mode. Many examples of this.
People need to respect that these animals can do some serious harm to them, and for Grizzley's it's almost always due to protection of cubs or to protect their territory. If they're out of hibernation early, there is a very real threat for them attacking for the sake of food, which is what happened to Tim Treadwell and his wife.
This attack was for the protection of the cubs, so when the threat was neutralized (he played dead), the mother bear moved on. If it had been for food, he would have not been so lucky.
SN.. for Black bear attacks, do not play dead as they are scavengers and could see it as an easy meal. They have different defense/attack instincts than Grizzly's. There are more situations of them biting people as they are asleep in tents, hammocks, etc. They are more likely to be scared off by making yourself "big" yelling at it. They are more likely to "bluff" charge". Usually if a Grizzly is coming it is the real thing. They can climb a tree in one or two seconds, so DO NOT climb a tree. They are much better. Always face the black bear without looking directly into its eyes as they attack from behind generally (as most animals do). Obviously with either (or any animal for that fact), no not run as this is viewed from their perspective as you are the prey to be chased.
Both will attack to protect the cubs though. Both are less likely to attack if you are in large groups, but no guarantee.
I live in the area where he was attacked.
The fact is nothing is guaranteed to stop a Grizzly attack, especially one like this.
The bears move so fast and with such determination a surprised human's reflexes simply don't allow enough time to do anything much.
Rangers think bear spray is better than a gun only because it doesn't need aiming, is quicker to get at, and it's not lethal to man or bear. A gun is heavier, needs good aim, and can be as lethal to the human as the bear.
Once inside a mother bear's kill zone, everything is up to the bear, not the human. Stories abound here of outdoorsmen's encounters that go back a full century, and no gun ever guarantees anything any more than bear spray does, or jamming a water bottle down the bear's throat does, or sacrificing a forearm to the bear, or using a Bowie knife, or anything else. It's all been done before, many times.
This mother bear didn't want to kill the guy, or she would have. What she wanted was to cripple him and put him down so hard he couldn't get back up until she had gathered the cubs and took them to safety.
All the bear spray did was give her a grudge, so she came on him again. If he had shot her, the results could have been exactly the same.
Do not believe anything you hear unless it comes from a game officer in bear country. Each bear is as different as each human is, and there is nothing that is usual in any attack. This applies to Grizzlies and Black bears. Everything boils down to pure luck, good or bad, distance from the bear and a multitude of other factors that both human and bear are stimulated into reaction to each other.
Rangers think bear spray is better than a gun only because it doesn't need aiming, is quicker to get at, and it's not lethal to man or bear. A gun is heavier, needs good aim, and can be as lethal to the human as the bear.
<<SNIP>>
That's one of the sillier comments in this thread.
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