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I hate threads that get down to yes they did no they didn't, but as far as I know, they did not say it was a mercy killing.
That's what the family said.
Can you find a quote from Law Enforcement (and there have been many) where they stated (not the family) that it was a mercy killing?
Murder/Suicide is what Law Enforcement has said, and the coroner ruled.
Quote:
Nguyen’s family told The Desert Sun on Saturday that this wasn’t a murderous act but rather one of compassion.
“It was explained to us by the investigators on scene, with the circumstances and positioning of the bodies, that they believe this was a sympathetic murder-suicide,” Son Nguyen, Rachel's uncle, said.
Can you think of a time where someone has done that?
When very healthy, young, happy people get into an emergency situation like this? It just seems so completely unusual when you're lost and dehydrating to shoot your friend and then yourself.
On the other hand, men who are in love and can't live without a woman who doesn't want them do this with startling regularity.
This is what make up murder/suicides - men whose women reject them.
To answer your ETA question above, they were discovered naked and entwined. Given that she didn't want a relationship with him, I'm kind of thinking that wasn't her idea.
I'm also thinking it wasn't her idea to get shot, either.
Do I know of people who have mercy killed? Yes, of course. Also who have committed suicide in the face of knowing painful death was imminent. That's all certainly easy enough to Google (not to minimize how tragic such circumstances are).
As for assuming he must have been in love with her, was rejected, so he shot her, he sure waited a long time (years after they had loosely seen one another, while being in contact the whole time after) and waited as well for it to be *her idea* to go hiking, to choose the locale and so on...Have I heard of a murderous crime of passion that followed that lackadaisical a trajectory? No. Not that I know of. It's usually much more motivated than that, much more the murderer's own idea (not some chance circumstance where he's invited somewhere and a lightbulb goes off and he thinks, "Oh, great! NOW I can kill her. Boy, I've waited years.").
I'm not mocking or minimizing, I'm saying putting it all together in a Cliff's Notes way - she rejected him, they went on a hike, he shot her - is artificially compressing years of friendship following the "breakup" and suggesting by omission that it was all his idea and a setup. If it is...I don't know why he waited years for her to make a suggestion to hike somewhere. That just does't smack of "crime of passion" to me. JMHO.
As to the bolded above, I didn't see that in the article you linked. The article said they "appeared" to be in an "embrace" but that it was impossible to determine (that is near the end of the article), and that they had draped themselves in clothing, apparently to protect themselves in the sun.
Do I know of people who have mercy killed? Yes, of course. Also who have committed suicide in the face of knowing painful death was imminent. That's all certainly easy enough to Google (not to minimize how tragic such circumstances are).
As to the bolded above, I didn't see that in the article you linked. The article said they "appeared" to be in an "embrace" but that it was impossible to determine (that is near the end of the article), and that they had draped themselves in clothing, apparently to protect themselves in the sun.
I do realize there are people who have mercy killed someone - it often seems to happen with elderly couples when one is in horrible pain.
What I'm asking you is, have you ever heard of a case of a murder suicide when the situation is like this - when at any moment, literally, rescue could arrive?
"Entwined" is the term I was seeing in articles. And I do know that in cases of tragedy, couples often die embraced, or a mother and child, etc.
But not in cases where one doesn't want to be in a relationship and the other does.
Law enforcement agencies issue corrections to media reports all the time. Especially if they feel they are being misquoted.
They often do.
They often don't.
They were notably silent on motive.
You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on what happened here - I'm just stating the fact that LE did not give a motive for the murder suicide, and in fact declined to answer when asked.
Another question is - how in the world would they KNOW what was in the minds/hearts of this couple at their moment of death? There's no way to know. There was no note, nothing left behind as to why he did that.
I do realize there are people who have mercy killed someone - it often seems to happen with elderly couples when one is in horrible pain.
What I'm asking you is, have you ever heard of a case of a murder suicide when the situation is like this - when at any moment, literally, rescue could arrive?
"Entwined" is the term I was seeing in articles. And I do know that in cases of tragedy, couples often die embraced, or a mother and child, etc.
But not in cases where one doesn't want to be in a relationship and the other does.
^ How do we know they hadn't given up on hope arriving? I feel like I'm missing some verified facts here. It's a longer thread, though. Where was this shown?
Seeing a word in articles is, as I said before, just as much an assumption as what you're accusing people of doing. In the article *you linked* it said they *appeared* to be in an embrace but that this could not be verified. The bodies were in a "condition" that made that and some other things impossible to determine. And it sure didn't say he "shot her to death, then stripped her naked," then "positioned" her to be "entwined." Nowhere near. Where is that info?
Again, you know of certain cases...but that delivers a confirmation bias, for you. That doesn't mean this is how things actually happened, it just means it's the most dramatic and hard-hitting possibility, the Hollywood possibility. These statements above are not facts according to the actual investigation. And that's fine, but then it's odd that you'd tell others we can't be right about *our own* views that also weren't given as direct facts according to the actual investigation, but are based on logic and the actual findings and actual words from people who knew the couple.
Friends have directly stated they knew of NO such plans for him to try to get her back, but you've waved that away and made yet further claims that obviously, that's because the family doesn't want to believe it could be possible. You continue to reach farther into assumptions not based on actual facts or even actual testimony, but tell *us* that we can't be right to assume based on those actual facts or actual testimony...that just isn't making very much sense.
"I do know that in cases of tragedy, couples often die embraced...but not in cases where one doesn't want to be in a relationship but the other does." But you say these people WERE embraced (although authorities can't confirm this) so you're saying that obviously, "one doesn't want to be in a relationship"...is false? I'm not sure I understand that statement. However....yet again, you're making these statements on things you've "heard," things you "know of," words you've "seen in articles" and so on. If all those are fair game then so are others' opinions of what might or might not have happened...but I have to say the way you're stating them, they all come off more as flights of dramatic fancy than real possibilities. You have no more confirmation that any of these assumptions based on what "you've heard" are correct, and again, they all seem odd as stacked against how crimes of passion DO ordinarily go, and that doesn't usually mean hanging around waiting for years being friends, then randomly seeing an opportunity to kill the other person based on that other person suggesting the two go on a hike.
Crimes of passion tend to come fast and hard, are the result of calculated planning by the killer, not on the victim's timeline or on her/his suggestions, and tend to follow a lot of "red flags" from friends and family members. That is how crimes of passion tend to go.
"Entwined" is the term I was seeing in articles. And I do know that in cases of tragedy, couples often die embraced, or a mother and child, etc.
But not in cases where one doesn't want to be in a relationship and the other does.
They were friends. Sorry that you apparently don't have any close friendships, but its very normal for people to embrace each other/comfort each other when in horrible situations. People don't only embrace non-family members that they are romantically involved with.
^ How do we know they hadn't given up on hope arriving? I feel like I'm missing some verified facts here. It's a longer thread, though. Where was this shown?
Seeing a word in articles is, as I said before, just as much an assumption as what you're accusing people of doing. In the article *you linked* it said they *appeared* to be in an embrace but that this could not be verified. The bodies were in a "condition" that made that and some other things impossible to determine. And it sure didn't say he "shot her to death, then stripped her naked," then "positioned" her to be "entwined." Nowhere near. Where is that info?
Again, you know of certain cases...but that delivers a confirmation bias, for you. That doesn't mean this is how things actually happened, it just means it's the most dramatic and hard-hitting possibility, the Hollywood possibility. These statements above are not facts according to the actual investigation. And that's fine, but then it's odd that you'd tell others we can't be right about *our own* views that also weren't given as direct facts according to the actual investigation, but are based on logic and the actual findings and actual words from people who knew the couple.
Friends have directly stated they knew of NO such plans for him to try to get her back, but you've waved that away and made yet further claims that obviously, that's because the family doesn't want to believe it could be possible. You continue to reach farther into assumptions not based on actual facts or even actual testimony, but tell *us* that we can't be right to assume based on those actual facts or actual testimony...that just isn't making very much sense.
"I do know that in cases of tragedy, couples often die embraced...but not in cases where one doesn't want to be in a relationship but the other does." But you say these people WERE embraced (although authorities can't confirm this) so you're saying that obviously, "one doesn't want to be in a relationship"...is false? I'm not sure I understand that statement. However....yet again, you're making these statements on things you've "heard," things you "know of," words you've "seen in articles" and so on. If all those are fair game then so are others' opinions of what might or might not have happened...but I have to say the way you're stating them, they all come off more as flights of dramatic fancy than real possibilities. You have no more confirmation that any of these assumptions based on what "you've heard" are correct, and again, they all seem odd as stacked against how crimes of passion DO ordinarily go, and that doesn't usually mean hanging around waiting for years being friends, then randomly seeing an opportunity to kill the other person based on that other person suggesting the two go on a hike.
Where have you seen that? All I've seen is Andrew's statement, that he didn't want to "push the relationship" and "he really wanted to do nice things for her".
I haven't seen a comment that he wasn't interested in getting her back. Do you still have a link to that?
I haven't seen a comment that he wasn't interested in getting her back.
And there are also no comments saying that he was interested in getting her back.
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In the article *you linked* it said they *appeared* to be in an embrace but that this could not be verified. The bodies were in a "condition" that made that and some other things impossible to determine. And it sure didn't say he "shot her to death, then stripped her naked," then "positioned" her to be "entwined." Nowhere near. Where is that info?
