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With all the speculation and amateur sleuthing going on here, I was surprised to see no comments on the fact they apparently shared a room at the B & B. Maybe I missed that, did not read every post. Or maybe it says some where they didn't, but I think it said they failed to check out of their "room" at the B & B. No one wants to make up a story based on that?
It's closer to the beginning of the thread, or the middle. There were comments about that, and someone posted they'd slept together the night before heading out. I don't know if that's accurate info. But yes, that was discussed.
A Freudian slip? If that's true he told them that seems like the guy she needed protection from was him, not some dark figure that somehow would know she was out in ththe desert-- if** it's true he told them that then now I officially completely believe he did it
With all the speculation and amateur sleuthing going on here, I was surprised to see no comments on the fact they apparently shared a room at the B & B. Maybe I missed that, did not read every post. Or maybe it says some where they didn't, but I think it said they failed to check out of their "room" at the B & B. No one wants to make up a story based on that?
Yes, I've read that on another site also, along with there being drugs in there room.
She apparently worked in a medical marijuana dispensary.
I'll stop there. so no one starts to beat me up!
This is all located on a popular site, read by many.
Not sure if I can copy and paste this here.
I'm not sure what camping has to do with a gun. Plenty of people take a gun hiking with them as protection against predators. Something like a rattlesnake is not going to leave you alone because you're on a "birthday hike".
You are mistaken. Their bodies were out there for 3 months. Its doubtful that they would be able to get a time of death, especially not one that accurate. The only thing we know in regards to time is that his phone ping was 9 hours after they arrived at the park. Who knows what the extent of her head injury was. It was bad enough that she had to wrap a shirt around her head. Combine that with the heat, and rationing of the food and water, she could have deteriorated pretty quickly. Maybe they lasted the night... Maybe a few days. We don't know.
It seems like you gave your daughter a lot of misinformation in regards to this case. Its not really a surprise that she came to the conclusion that she did.
I don't think they need to be able to determine the time of death from the bodies. I believe the limits of survivability, in the conditions they were in would have been less than 24 hours. But they decided to end it before that. At 4PM when the cell phone pinged for the last time, they would have been in the most extreme heat of the day, about 105 - 106 degrees. They would have been in bad condition at that point, even without the head wound. They would have been about halfway through the maximum survivability period at that point. If they didn't end it at that time, they would have both died sometime that night.
Quote:
Dehydration and Limits of Survival
Severe elevations in blood osmotic pressures are incompatible with
life. Just as hyponatremia (blood hypo-osmolality) can produce
fatal brain swelling, severe hypernatremia (hyper-osmolality) can
produce fatal brain shrinkage. The physical forces of each can
produce tearing of intracerebral veins and cerebral hemorrhage.8
Although other pathologic outcomes of severe dehydration may
also have fatal consequences, the effects of hyper-osmolality on
central nervous system function have long been suspected as
primary.20
Acute elevations in plasma osmolality (Posm) >350 mmol/kg
produce neurologic symptoms in animals, such as seizures and
coma; death in humans has been consistently observed in patients
with Posm >370 mmol/kg.8
Postmortem analysis of human vitreous
humor samples in cases of death from dehydration show marked
sodium elevations (>170 mmol/L).108 By using the formula 2.1 ×
Na+
to estimate osmolality,82 a value of 357 mmol/kg is obtained.
It therefore appears that a plasma osmolality value of 350 mmol/
kg can be considered as an approximate limit for human survival.
The level of lethal dehydration (Posm >350 mmol/kg) and the
time required to reach it can be estimated. If we assume that a
70-kg person possesses 42 L of body water and has a resting Posm
of 285 mmol/kg, then the degree of pure water loss required to
concentrate Posm to the lethal limit is (285/350) × 42 = 34.2 L, or
7.8 L water loss. However, since electrolytes are also lost in urine
and sweat, a reasonable correction can be applied (7.8/0.94),
which gives 8.3 L. This gives a level of dehydration of almost
12% body mass and 20% of total body water. Although higher
estimates have been made (~20% body mass), it is cautioned that
as much as half of fasting weight losses derive from nonwater
sources.23 Under fasting conditions, Brown et al.23 estimate that
urine losses will stabilize at 0.5 L/day after the first day. The
remaining losses from sweat depend on environmental temperature
and body heat production.
Under hospitable indoor conditions, obligatory urine23,84 and
insensible sweat losses84,98 add up to about 1.2 L/day, which
makes survival without water possible for almost 7 days. This is
longer than the 100-hour rule of thumb (about 4 days),149 but
highly dependent on environmental and behavioral factors. For
example, in a worst-case desert scenario where there is 10 hours
of daytime temperature exposure (>40° C [104° F]) and 14 hours
of nighttime temperature exposure (<20° C [68° F]),23 approximately
3.0 L/day of sweat loss can be added to the 0.5 L/day
losses of urine when at rest.23 This would limit survival to about
2.5 days. If the lost desert sojourner was to travel by night (14
hours) on foot through sand69 at 4.8 km/hr (3 mph) and rest
unshaded during the day, 8.6 L/day fluid losses23,71 would limit
survival to less than 1 day (23 hours). If traveling by day and
night, sweat losses of approximately 0.60 L/hr (day) and 0.40 L/
hr (night)71 would limit survival to about 16 hours. In each case
when traveling, the distance covered would be roughly the same
(42-48 miles).
I disagree that time of death doesn't matter. I don't see how it could not matter... a lot. They left the Airbnb safe to say they drank plenty of fluids before leaving, so theres that... they got started early. so the time of death does matter imo... if they left early and had eaten and drank plenty of water, orange juice etc before embarking, it makes a difference if time of death was hours into it because it's hard to believe she would have chosen to be shot with all her love and adventure for life... her aunt said she loved traveling and was excited about plans for her life..... yes, dehydration is serious and in those situations life threatening. Still doesn't relate though to him bringing a gun, telling people it was to protect her from a stalker which makes no sense.. or the other stuff
I haven't seen the investigators say that. I've seen the family state that the investigators suggested that as a possibility.
And yes, that matters. It is generous and empathetic to tell a family member that maybe this was done as a kindness, rather than oh no, this jerk lured your daughter out to the desert to shoot her in the head.
I have never heard of the police lying to a family, being "generous and empathetic" so that they are sheltered from the truth. If that was the case, why not just call every murder/suicide a mercy kill? If the police believe he "lured" her out into the desert (even though she was the one who invited him, so that makes no sense) and shot her in the head then that is what they would tell the family. They're not going to make up a story as to not hurt their feelings.
I disagree that time of death doesn't matter. I don't see how it could not matter... a lot. They left the Airbnb safe to say they drank plenty of fluids before leaving, so theres that... they got started early. so the time of death does matter imo... if they left early and had eaten and drank plenty of water, orange juice etc before embarking, it makes a difference if time of death was hours into it because it's hard to believe she would have chosen to be shot with all her love and adventure for life... her aunt said she loved traveling and was excited about plans for her life..... yes, dehydration is serious and in those situations life threatening. Still doesn't relate though to him bringing a gun, telling people it was to protect her from a stalker which makes no sense.. or the other stuff
When they were found they had no water with them. It doesn't matter what they drank nine hours before. You can't drink lots of water, and then walk around the desert without water. When you sweat, you lose hydration. Whatever they might have drank before leaving would have been of no help to them nine hours later.
One of the first reports said he brought the gun because she had been stalked by a guy. That was the reason he'd given a family member before setting out. Why would he think a stalker would know where she was going that day?
When they were found they had no water with them. It doesn't matter what they drank nine hours before. You can't drink lots of water, and then walk around the desert without water. When you sweat, you lose hydration. Whatever they might have drank before leaving would have been of no help to them nine hours later.
That's not true... consider person X who arrives in desert for a hike without drinking first... next person embarks after being thoroughly hydrated.. yes medically it very much plays a role. Start out with little hydration versus starting out well hydrated. I understand that hydration wouldn't last forever but it definitely gives the body an advantage as some time goes by without water. A well watered plant will live longer than a plant that wasn't recently watered. Think of it as a hydration investment for the body
By the way, I've spent lots of time in Joshua Tree. I've hiked, climbed, and camped there over a period of years. Never once have I or anyone I've been with wished we had a gun. If you are so nervous about being in the desert that you think you need a gun for protection against wildlife on a day hike, you really shouldn't go out there in the first place.
Did you ever find a small cave with silly string all over the walls?
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