Gabriel Fernandez - 8 year old tortured and beaten to death - verdict reached

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by mondayafternoons

Mm you really read into my post something I did not say at all. Who said the pos doesn't have a competent or vigorous defense team?? Bc I didn't say that. I said I won't say what I think of them. Nothing to do w being competent or not. Given the fact there was never any contesting the facts that the defendant committed every one of those acts of horror, well, ya know what I mean? Even a prestigious physician can't save everyone, they have those patients who are just such hard cases that with all the expertise in the world still can only do so much. Nothing to do w competence.

Keep in mind there was never any debate or doubt whether the defendant committed any of the acts against the child. There is no debate or speculation on if he did any or all of them so they have a rather almost impossible job- and well, it's kind of pitiful watching them trying to grab at any straws they can. And looking defeated already. Because they are. Not bc they're incompetent.
P.S. --- priceless--- the look on one of the defense guys face when the jury came back with verdict of guilt on both counts.
Sign up for stupid stuff--- earn stupid prizes. Priceless.

Monday, I think you've misunderstood my post and I'm not trying to offend you. I really do appreciate the personal observations you are able to make in this case.

I know you're not saying they're incompetent. The opposite. You're angry that they're presenting a defense.

My post addressed this statement of yours:

"I will keep my observations about the defense lawyers to myself because here isn't anything slightly good or redeeming I can say about them".


I don't know if you know the process by which attorneys are appointed for the indigent, and I wanted to make it clear they don't have a choice except in rare cases not to accept the job of defending this client.

I think they probably cry into their pillows at night and dread getting to court each day and they suffer the public scorn as if this was their choice.

I'm not intending to pick any kind of argument - just realizing Aguirre's counsel is in a very very tough position. I certainly wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

[ClaraC]

What happened here, to Isauro Aguirre? This monstrous behavior seems to have come out of absolutely nowhere. From a supportive loving family with no apparent abuse issues at all, into a young man who compassionately cared for the helpless elderly in a nursing home, to this, a monster who brutalized a small child for months until his death.

This case deserves further medical/psychological investigation in my opinion.

Even his prior girlfriends - and they usually really know the man - seem baffled. I certainly think that "slamming a door", or frequently calling a girlfriend who had broken up with her to "find out how she was" but not threatening her are hallmarks of a man who is in control of himself and has a gentle nature.

Shocking.

Convicted Palmdale child killer portrayed as compassionate when younger | abc7.com

[mondayafternoons]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

What happened here, to Isauro Aguirre? This monstrous behavior seems to have come out of absolutely nowhere. From a supportive loving family with no apparent abuse issues at all, into a young man who compassionately cared for the helpless elderly in a nursing home, to this, a monster who brutalized a small child for months until his death.

This case deserves further medical/psychological investigation in my opinion.

Even his prior girlfriends - and they usually really know the man - seem baffled. I certainly think that "slamming a door", or frequently calling a girlfriend who had broken up with her to "find out how she was" but not threatening her are hallmarks of a man who is in control of himself and has a gentle nature.

Shocking.

Convicted Palmdale child killer portrayed as compassionate when younger | abc7.com

Yes shocking, kind of like how it was so shocking to many upon finding out ted Bundy had committed serial murders-- seemed like such a nice guy, don't think he had a known past of violence or crime. It doesn't matter if someone seemed nice before- once a person commits a shocking act of brutal violence -- THEY ARENT NICE.
He is a predator. Like Bundy. Didn't Bundy also have a girlfriend who said he wasn't abusive or violent to her as well? And In a job setting with others watching he put on his good behavior. Get a 8 yrbold boy alone w a mother who is not only not protecting him but also abusice and there you go-- a predator of the worst kind.
Past "good" behavior does not water down or take away from the crimes he committed.

Nobody is impressed by his past "good behavior"--- even if he won a noble prize who cares but his good behavior wasn't that just what a person is supposed to do anyways (not torture or murder children, not beat up elderly patients at his job, not starve his patients or force them to eat cat feces....ok cool, he showed up at his shifts at that job and didn't actually commit crimes or threaten coworkers or patients-- do we need to give him a medal of valor for this)???? Does the fact he didn't ( that we are aware of) harm or kill others before he tortured an 8 yr old to death mean that he should get "credit" and a lighter sentence for the fact he didn't as far as we know kill someone before the victim?

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by mondayafternoons

He is a predator. In a job setting with others watching he put on his good behavior. Get a 8 yrbold boy alone w a mother who is not only not protecting him but also abusice and there you go-- a predator of the worst kind

I don't know, Monday, I'm very curious. I don't think he 'faked' being a regular guy all his life and his true colors only showed in 2013. When you hear girlfriends testify that he's a normal guy, he was, at one time, a normal guy. Apparently until the age of about 35. I struggle to think that could be faked.

I'd be more inclined to think he has a thyroid disorder, a brain tumor, undiagnosed and untreated diabetes that leads to rages, etc.

When you hear a case of a child abuser who was himself abused during his childhood, and there were innumerable people who said he was abusive/rageful, I get that. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

I think it's too simplistic to say this was his true nature all along and he just hid it from everyone until middle age.

[mondayafternoons]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

I don't know, Monday, I'm very curious. I don't think he 'faked' being a regular guy all his life and his true colors only showed in 2013. When you hear girlfriends testify that he's a normal guy, he was, at one time, a normal guy. Apparently until the age of about 35. I struggle to think that could be faked.

I'd be more inclined to think he has a thyroid disorder, a brain tumor, undiagnosed and untreated diabetes that leads to rages, etc.

When you hear a case of a child abuser who was himself abused during his childhood, and there were innumerable people who said he was abusive/rageful, I get that. Nothing to see here folks, move along.


I think it's too simplistic to say this was his true nature all along and he just hid it from everyone until middle age.

your funny Clara... a thyroid disorder huh? Please note-- diabetes does not cause people to torture and murder 8 yr olds---( has his imagined thyroid disorder or diabetes by the way mysteriously been cured since he was arrested? Because somehow in the time he's been in jail it looks like mysteriously he hasn't had any more thyroid or diabetic freak outs). So that's a very intriguing medical theory of yours-- it looks like his thyroid or diabetic freak outs only occurred when he got the 8 yr old boy alone.... interesting. My dad was diabetic and he had issues not related to his location or who he was with. So Aguirre if he had this fantastical thyroid disorder for some reason.... it only popped up when he was alone with the little boy. Then, when he went to work it didn't act up- or when he was shopping he didn't have a thyroid freak out and attack other people. I have never heard of a medical condition that only surfaces when the person is alone with another person- so that's really amazing theory you wondered about.

and the fact he committed those acts systematically even worse, systematically over a long period of time, calculating how and when to avoid social workers by hiding him in the dreaded locked cabinet when social worker showed up at their house, or explain for the many communications investigators found between the pos (Aguirre) and the other defendant in colluding and hiding his injuries and intentionally planning times to do it. Keeping him out of school for several weeks, now it's known during that time he kept him home to torture him physically and mentally, beat him force him to eat cat feces, then told the school he was visiting a grandparent in Texas.

Any irritability from blood sugar in diabetes --- doesn't resemble this what he engaged in. At all.

As i said like w Ted Bundy, many were equally shocked finding out what he did- read above. I wonder if Bundy had low blood sugar or a thyroid problem and we shouldn't have executed him- he just needed insulin therapy most likely.

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by mondayafternoons

your funny Clara... a thyroid disorder huh? Please note-- diabetes does not cause people to torture and murder 8 yr olds---( has his imagined thyroid disorder or diabetes by the way mysteriously been cured since he was arrested? Because somehow in the time he's been in jail it looks like mysteriously he hasn't had any more thyroid or diabetic freak outs)
and the fact he committed those acts systematically even worse, systematically over a long period of time, calculating how and when to avoid social workers by hiding him in the dreaded locked cabinet when social worker showed up at their house, or explain for the many communications investigators found between the pos (Aguirre) and the other defendant in colluding and hiding his injuries and intentionally planning times to do it. Keeping him out of school for several weeks, now it's known during that time he kept him home to torture him physically and mentally, beat him force him to eat cat feces, then told the school he was visiting a grandparent in Texas.

Any irritability from blood sugar in diabetes --- doesn't resemble this what he engaged in. At all.

As i said like w Ted Bundy, many were equally shocked finding out what he did- read above. I wonder if Bundy had low blood sugar or a thyroid problem and we shouldn't have executed him- he just needed insulin therapy most likely.

I'm not funny. And although I appreciate your direct input - it's always wonderful to have someone report first hand - I'm done conversing with you about this again.

Yes, rages can be caused by thyroid disorder or untreated diabetes. Rageful behavior can be a physiological brain thing, and can be effectively treated with medication/brain surgery.

I don't know what the case is here, but I'm not willing to brush this off as a man who hid his evil personality for 35 years and then became a psychotic torturing murderer to this poor defenseless child.

When we decide there is no "cause", we decide not to be open to preventing this sort of thing again because there's no way to predict it.

Best wishes.

[mondayafternoons]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

I'm not funny. And although I appreciate your direct input - it's always wonderful to have someone report first hand - I'm done conversing with you about this again.

Yes, rages can be caused by thyroid disorder or untreated diabetes. Rageful behavior can be a physiological brain thing, and can be effectively treated with medication/brain surgery.

I don't know what the case is here, but I'm not willing to brush this off as a man who hid his evil personality for 35 years and then became a psychotic torturing murderer to this poor defenseless child.

When we decide there is no "cause", we decide not to be open to preventing this sort of thing again because there's no way to predict it.

Best wishes.

So he only had these medical rages occur solely when he was alone with the little boy... apparently they never occurred at a store, talking to a relative or neighbor, at work---- ** only ever happened alone with Gabriel. I have never heard of a medical condition being so selective-- if a person has a true medical condition it doesn't work that way.

Re the diabetes thing- it can cause irritability, anxiety, short temper--- not torture and murder. Also any anger from a blood sugar issue wouldn't be a slow deliberate pre- meditated and systematic . Aguirre premeditated by evidence undisputed in court seen in text records between him and other defendant talking about when or how to do it and also how to conceal what they were doing. He did this to the victim always when alone at home, systematically over a long period. It was not a random freak out.

my dad had irritability sometimes with diabetes or short tempered and his blood sugar issues happened at different times/ places: people. Once at a concert, once during a family gathering, once alone at home, once at Sams Club - ya know what I mean?

If your trying to find a cause , common sense is a good thing to factor in... your theory of diabetes would not resemble his behavior, by a long shot. It was not some random freak out where his blood sugar got unstable-- do you not understand the acts he committed were systematic, planned, there are text messages in court printed out of times him and other defendant colluded in planning times to abuse him and how to hide it from authorities and the school. So whatever the cause was is not thyroid or diabetes.

Look up sociopath as a possibility-- as we know Ted Bundy the serial killer shocked many people who couldn't believe when they found out because they always knew him to be such a nice guy and so helpful too, and a nice boyfriend.

[ClaraC]

I'm not saying everyone with those medical conditions harms others.

What I am saying, is when you look at the times he tortured little Gabriel, he wasn't doing it in a giddy gleeful way as some monsters do. He was in a rage.

Then you have to consider what was causing his rages.

The Ted Bundy case is widely misunderstood. At the time of his arrest, Bundy had virtually no friends - he did have one professor who seemed to think highly of him. There was no family at all who defended him or attended any of his hearings or said they were completely surprised.

[mondayafternoons]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

I'm not saying everyone with those medical conditions harms others.

What I am saying, is when you look at the times he tortured little Gabriel, he wasn't doing it in a giddy gleeful way as some monsters do. He was in a rage.

Then you have to consider what was causing his rages.

The Ted Bundy case is widely misunderstood. At the time of his arrest, Bundy had virtually no friends - he did have one professor who seemed to think highly of him. There was no family at all who defended him or attended any of his hearings or said they were completely surprised.

You don't seem to be able to get the explanation that medical conditions aren't selective in only showing up when alone with an 8 yr old boy.
Or that any irritability or anger with diabetes wouldn't play out in a planned, systematic manner - pls read part on the evidence he had been planning and colluding with other defendant on times to torture him and how they would hide it from the school or authorities.

When a diabetic has irritability or some anger symptoms (NOT torture or murder) they surface in the moment, nothey are not planned or pre-meditated.

Why do you think ted Bundy was widely misunderstood? He was analyzed and evaluated as nauseum

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by mondayafternoons

You don't seem to be able to get the explanation that medical conditions aren't selective in only showing up when alone with an 8 yr old boy.
Or that any irritability or anger with diabetes wouldn't play out in a planned, systematic manner - pls read part on the evidence he had been planning and colluding with other defendant on times to torture him and how they would hide it from the school or authorities.

When a diabetic has irritability or some anger symptoms (NOT torture or murder) they surface in the moment, nothey are not planned or pre-meditated.

Why do you think ted Bundy was widely misunderstood? He was analyzed and evaluated as nauseum

I think the public misunderstands Bundy. They thought he was beloved and had no history of bizarre and unsocial behavior. Behavioral scientists seem to get him - very well - he fit the mold for a sociopathic killer. The public has latched onto a false narrative about him, though. I guess it makes a better story to think he was normal and his serial killer behavior came out of nowhere.

I know a lot about rage and anger management. It's worth noting whether a killer/abuser does this in rage, or in giddy pleasure. The two are caused by completely different motivations.

Rageful people almost always have a target of their rage, Monday. Few people vent their rage indiscriminately. So you'll have some guy who claims he can't control his anger but you can witness he can sure control it around a cop.

I know some people want to think there is no explanation at all for this senseless violent behavior, but that's where my mind goes. I really don't want to hear about the awful injuries and humiliations this poor child suffered (sometimes called grief porn for those who can't get enough of reading that stuff), I want to think about the cause. And I don't believe in evil, although I know some people are beyond rehabilitation.

And I don't accept the diagnosis "he was just a monster and that's the beginning and the end of it". It's not. There's a cause.