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First of all, the bill isn't finalized and is expected to have revisions before it goes to the state senate. It has already exempted a multitude of businesses, and apparently the final version will include exemptions for small businesses. Even so, perhaps some may be hurt. It;s hard to change any law without anyone getting caught in the net. But just like the ACA helped many more than those hurt by it (I was one of those hurt by it but still I can see it was needed), this bill will help more workers than it hurts, especially if other states follow suit.
Uber and Lyft drivers are being classified as contractors, with none of the protections employees get, yet none of the benefits contractors get, such as being able to negotiate and set their rates. Just as past decades when Walmart forced California to provide health insurance and financial assistance to their employees because they wanted to avoid those expenses, Uber and Lyft are profiting through avoidance of taxes and other employee expenses that every other business pays. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because their might be some hiccups on the way to fixing it. It;s fine for you to say "it's fine the way it is" but tens of thousands of California workers do not agree.
Ok, so if the real goal is to help Lyft/Uber drivers, why not do something specific there? I mean, they could also enforce medallion requirements for ride sharing. My sister drives for Uber Eats. I tell her she's wasting her time and burning up her car, but she likes it as a side gig....and that's exactly what it is for many of those drivers. A side gig. But don't drag the entire industry into something it isn't.
Uber and Lyft avoid paying taxes because they don't make any money. They aren't profiting any which way and Wall Street is taking them to task.
As for the ACA for real contractors, it's a pain in the @ss. If I have to do a gig through an agency, they all now offer the standard terrible plans that somehow barely qualify....somewhere below silver and bronze plans....there's the used plastic cup plans. I guess it's a nice option for some but for a real contractor, the idea of switching health plans every few months is asinine. What I have noticed over the years though is that my individually purchased plan is rising less quickly than the state and employer ones. And frankly, I'm deducting that shiznik. I don't care if some garbage plan was offered to me for 2 months out of the year.
How is that fraud ? 1099 workers are the equivalent of self employed workers.
You pay your FICA taxes quarterly. Self employed folks also don't have access to UE or worker's comp.
But that's all by choice.
Back before I was self employed I would much prefer to work as an independent contractor. Those who are good at it make much more money. This will penalize those people in order to pay for those who can't carry their own weight.
In reality it will mean lots Uber drivers, etc will be let go. Those who perhaps did not make that much money but did the work because they needed the extra money will now get nothing. And those doing well will get a pay cut to pay the new hourly wages and all the associated stuff that goes with that.
Back before I was self employed I would much prefer to work as an independent contractor. Those who are good at it make much more money. This will penalize those people in order to pay for those who can't carry their own weight.
In reality it will mean lots Uber drivers, etc will be let go. Those who perhaps did not make that much money but did the work because they needed the extra money will now get nothing. And those doing well will get a pay cut to pay the new hourly wages and all the associated stuff that goes with that.
They are the ones however who have been fighting for this.
They are the ones however who have been fighting for this.
The ones who are not very good at working as an independent contractor want it. Some thrive at it and the hourly will be a big cut in pay because their top end will be limited.
If there was ever a time in human history where demanding more money in certain occupations was a horrible idea, now is that time. It will be taught in history and economic classes how this short sighted move backfired.
Of course everyone wants to make more money. That is a given.
Using human drivers is just a step in the process for Uber because longer term its self driving cars. They have poured billions into development. This will just speed up the process.
The ones who are not very good at working as an independent contractor want it. Some thrive at it and the hourly will be a big cut in pay because their top end will be limited.
If there was ever a time in human history where demanding more money in certain occupations was a horrible idea, now is that time. It will be taught in history and economic classes how this short sighted move backfired.
Of course everyone wants to make more money. That is a given.
Using human drivers is just a step in the process for Uber because longer term its self driving cars. They have poured billions into development. This will just speed up the process.
The process is going to be exactly as fast as development of self-driving cars is perfected. I don't think anything drivers do will slow it down or speed it up.
The process is going to be exactly as fast as development of self-driving cars is perfected. I don't think anything drivers do will slow it down or speed it up.
Radically changing how the drivers get paid will speed it up, certainly will not slow down the inevitable.
With 5G the cars are almost there. Its more public perception and government regulations as much as anything left stopping the future.
Radically changing how the drivers get paid will speed it up, certainly will not slow down the inevitable.
With 5G the cars are almost there. Its more public perception and government regulations as much as anything left stopping the future.
We’re just going to agree to disagree about that. Cosl mines didn’t start using automated equipment to mine coal because the coal miners asked for too much. They automated because equipment was developed that allow them to.
Radically changing how the drivers get paid will speed it up, certainly will not slow down the inevitable.
With 5G the cars are almost there. Its more public perception and government regulations as much as anything left stopping the future.
I agree. Look how quick McDonalds was to renovate their stores to roll out kiosks. Their goal is to have all McDonalds in the US include the kiosks by next year. I think all those $15/hr min wage protests had some influence in their decision making.
The "independent contractors" essentially need to work for multiple clients at the same time to show that they are something more than contract employees. It's not going to be enough to bring a car as your main piece of equipment. Independent contractors market their services to multiple concurrent clients. Contract employees work for only one client at a time, and mostly market their services to serial clients once their current employment nears its end.
The argument that a lot of small businesses are going to go under is obviously a false one. Given the low wages, these drivers are in no financial condition to set up a rival independent taxi services outside of Uber.
Driver automation will come because there won't be enough drivers to deliver goods to the elderly or to transport them to and from the home. It has been going on for almost 10 year in Japan, and starting to sprout up in the US.
Ask Lois Lerner about that. Oh wait Congress asked her about that - she pleaded the 5th, retired, and now enjoys her gold-plated federal pension & Cadillac health care as a reward for IRS actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Note that under this ruling, Uber and Lyft cannot use independent contractors, since their central business is transportation, specifically taxi services.
Uber & Lyft are technology platform companies that connect willing independent people who wish to share a ride with willing independent people who wish to share a car. Their central business is being an intermediary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Yes, it does, because it fails the test.
The worker is free from the control and direction of the hirer in relation to the performance of the work, both under the contract and in fact.
Aren't drivers required to display the Uber icon/symbol in their vehicles?
Neither Uber nor Lyft can tell the independent driver to either take a gig or not take a gig. They cannot tell the independent driver to service this area vs. service that area. They cannot tell her she must work when she wants to go watch a movie or be home with her family on Christmas Day. They cannot tell her how much to work - or how little.
The independent driver is truly free from the control and direction of Uber/Lyft. The display of a sign is for the convenience and well-being and at the request of the passenger - just like clothing on the bodies of the driver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
The worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hirer’s business.
Uber is a taxi-service, right?
Wrong. Uber & Lyft hire software developers, business development execs etc etc etc all of which is to be an intermediary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
I sure hope they're prepared to lose more money, because both Uber and Lyft are going to be forced to hire those drivers and put them on the company pay-roll.
In the real world, you're probably right, as the California Supreme Court doesn't even pretend not to have its thumb on the scales of justice. When it happens those Uber & Lyft drivers will not end up on the company payroll. Doing so likely would put Uber & Lyft below the economic shut-down-point. Those drivers can look forward to the disappearance of an technology intermediary as Uber & Lyft cease operations in California. What will those Uber & Lyft drivers do? Perhaps pursue exciting careers in the fast-food preparation or motel housekeeping industries.
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