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If someone really wants to jump off a ship, a higher window isn't going to stop them. Plenty of areas on a ship where it's nothing but a waist high railing between you and the ocean. Should ships get ride of those too? Enclose the whole thing due to what people could possibly do?
The windows are perfectly safe as they are now. An adult cannot accidently fall out of one. It has to be purposeful. A child cannot fall out a window either unless an adult picks them up and holds them out the window or to the window ledge. Which is also a purposeful act. No one accidently picks a child up and holds them out a window.
And if someone really wants to commit suicide, then a window they can't jump out of just means they'll find a different way.
(I always roll my eyes at the ads about "lock up your guns so your kids can't commit suicide!" As if someone who wants to die is going to say "well, can't get at the gun, guess I'll give up." You'd think they'd do better to have ads about helping your kids not be suicidal in the first place, but I guess that's just too hard or something.)
And if someone really wants to commit suicide, then a window they can't jump out of just means they'll find a different way.
(I always roll my eyes at the ads about "lock up your guns so your kids can't commit suicide!" As if someone who wants to die is going to say "well, can't get at the gun, guess I'll give up." You'd think they'd do better to have ads about helping your kids not be suicidal in the first place, but I guess that's just too hard or something.)
You lock up your guns to keep children from accidentally shooting themselves, not to keep them from committing suicide.
Using every method of security to protect dumb people is necessary in todays' world.
Emphatically disagree. The Romans had it right with bonus pater familia - their standard of care when dealing with the public was based the concept of "good family father", surviving into English legalese as "a reasonable person".
We should protect the reasonable person and have done so for centuries. If this has been caused by, say, an unlocked door opening to an 11-story fall, the cruiseline would be nailed to the wall with criminal penalties. Quite likely ship's officers going to prison. Certainly loss of professional certification - and with that, livelihoods. Because a reasonable person wouldn't expect to open a door and find a dangerous drop, and putting anyone in that situation would not live up to standard of care. But we do expect a reasonable person to identify "window" and "height".
Would a child be able to make that connection? No. So we make the window inaccessible for children.
There is no way to build anything, except possibly a padded cell, that can keep dumb people from coming to harm. Certainly not a ship.
Last edited by Dane_in_LA; 10-18-2020 at 11:19 AM..
And if someone really wants to commit suicide, then a window they can't jump out of just means they'll find a different way.
I always roll my eyes at the ads about "lock up your guns so your kids can't commit suicide!" As if someone who wants to die is going to say "well, can't get at the gun, guess I'll give up."
As for that... Statistically, denied opportunities actually do have an effect. When the UK stopped using coal gas (deadly) and replaced with natural gas (much less so), suicide numbers - and attempts - dropped significantly. Suicide attempts happen when intent and opportunity coincide. Levels of determination vary wildly.
The mental gymnastics that the parents contrive to escape the reality and blame for their child’s death is truly remarkable. Erase the fact that grandpa was careless, reckless and negligent. Shift the blame and go for an insurance settlement to smooth things over. Maybe they will even give gramps some cash if the cruise lines pay out.
And if someone really wants to commit suicide, then a window they can't jump out of just means they'll find a different way.
(I always roll my eyes at the ads about "lock up your guns so your kids can't commit suicide!" As if someone who wants to die is going to say "well, can't get at the gun, guess I'll give up." You'd think they'd do better to have ads about helping your kids not be suicidal in the first place, but I guess that's just too hard or something.)
A lot of times it’s done impulsively, and a gun makes it very easy to act on an impulse.
I’m not sure all those “suicide” on boats are actually suicides or accidents anyway. I have read articles that speculate that many are actually murders. Few people go on cruises alone.
Not that I think this is the case here, I don’t at all.
A lot of times it’s done impulsively, and a gun makes it very easy to act on an impulse.
I’m not sure all those “suicide” on boats are actually suicides or accidents anyway. I have read articles that speculate that many are actually murders. Few people go on cruises alone.
Not that I think this is the case here, I don’t at all.
About 300 people have disappeared from cruise ships in the past 20 years. At least one, Amy Lynn Bradley, is suspected to have been the result of human trafficking operations.
You lock up your guns to keep children from accidentally shooting themselves, not to keep them from committing suicide.
You've clearly not seen the ad campaigns I have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
As for that... Statistically, denied opportunities actually do have an effect. When the UK stopped using coal gas (deadly) and replaced with natural gas (much less so), suicide numbers - and attempts - dropped significantly. Suicide attempts happen when intent and opportunity coincide. Levels of determination vary wildly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
A lot of times it’s done impulsively, and a gun makes it very easy to act on an impulse.
And do you suppose all of those suicidal people magically stopped *wanting* to kill themselves? "Preventing suicide" is about much more than just making sure someone doesn't have the means.
About 300 people have disappeared from cruise ships in the past 20 years. At least one, Amy Lynn Bradley, is suspected to have been the result of human trafficking operations.
Wow! Did she work on the boat or something? Or was she a passenger?
And do you suppose all of those suicidal people magically stopped *wanting* to kill themselves? "Preventing suicide" is about much more than just making sure someone doesn't have the means.
Yes, a lot of the time if you can get past that moment of impulse, you're past the danger in that moment, then can get help, or the family can. Making sure they don't have the means in that one impulsive moment can make all the difference. Not talking about people who plan it out.
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You lock up your guns to keep children from accidentally shooting themselves, not to keep them from committing suicide.
