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Folks will assess this tragedy in various ways, and have but I don't think a conclusion that the grandfather intended the girl to balance or stand by herself on the railing would be correct. For that even a gymnast might struggle.
In The Inside Edition video above, the attorney said the grandfather placed the girl on the railing then let go of her "for a second." I took that to mean that having placed her feet on the railing he then was adjusting his hands with the intent to have the child sandwiched between his body and the glass, her feet on the railing for some support.
Eventually what facts that can be established will come out but then the "story" will have moved on with opinions already firmed fixed. This was a tragic accident for a caring family that in its aftermath required both parents and the grandfather to be sedated. IMHO it's highly unlikely this grandfather perched a child on that narrow railing in front of a window known to him to be open then deliberately let go only to see her fall.
This whole thing reminds me of that movie “Antichrist.”
Yikes. If you watch that be prepared to feel sick and depressed. No, it has nothing to do with the supernatural or demons- except the demons within.
Every time I hear “Lascia ch’io piangia” I picture that baby falling out of the window. It’s undoubtedly one of the most heart-wrenching scenes ever filmed. You can google the scene; I don’t feel that it’s tasteful to post the video here. Lars von Trier is definitely adept at getting you to feel the characters’ misery.
And these people will be going through their own hell in real life. Can’t imagine it.
The possibility of the grandfather being, or on the verge of becoming, mentally incapacitated, ie dementia/alzheimers or beginning stages of dementa/alzheimers, has not been raised. Could this explain how and why he put her on the handrail in front of an obviously open window and LET GO OF HER? What other explanation is there for him doing something like this?????? This could also possibly explain why the family has not blamed him, per the attorney's interview on Inside Edition.
Whatever the outcome is, I pray for them and wish them healing from the loss and pain they are experiencing.
It the (bold) is more likely to be the other way around. The very earliest stages of dementia can be present years before it's recognized to the individual himself or diagnosed with subtle diminution in skills. My stepmother and a neighbor started having minor traffic accidents, maybe due to a reduction in depth perception.
For whatever reason (light, angle, distraction, even early dementia) the added details that the grandfather stood the little girl on the railing and then didn't hold on tight continuously strongly suggest he did, in fact, perceive the window to be closed.
His error - and it was that - was not the fault of the cruise line but an example that sometimes even caring individuals cannot always keep themselves or those in their charge safe. That kind of realization is terribly upsetting, certainly one that I personalized with added anxiety as my daughter sets off her first solo cruise tomorrow with her BF. No worries that she'll fall off the ship but we cannot always control horrible randomness. I found myself last night trying to buy a snorkeling vest for her concerned that those offered by the vendor might not be adequate. She and her BF thought I was crazy.
I can't speak to the grandfather's intent - which was not wise even with a closed window - but that type of activity demonstrates exactly the conflict that I referred to earlier between myself and a good friend over my daughter. His inability to follow my guidelines led to an partial estrangement with reduced access to her.
There was: (1) reduced situational awareness (I referred to his almost raising her into a high speed fan, twice); (2) not respecting the intended use of various structures turning everything into a playground; and (3) placing himself in the center of their interactions. By the last I mean he would put her places where he did have to "save" her seemingly enjoying that role. This was not acceptable for a young child cannot distinguish between being "saved" (caught) and successful self-navigating. This is why young children when on their own end up doing something terribly dangerous.
His bent on that ship would have been to put her (at perhaps a slightly older age) on that railing and turn it into a balance beam, reaching for her to prevent a fall or maybe holding her hand as she walked. That's clearly unacceptable. He, on the other hand, was convinced I was over-protective and controlling. He viewed himself as a fun surrogate uncle and believed she would benefit from being more "adventurous."
My ex husband was exactly like this with 2 of our 3 children and is why in part we are divorced . #3 was a late in life surprise and I left with her when she was 1 thank goodness . He just could not understand why I would divorce him over this after repeated attempts to get him to stop .
The final straw was at a state fair where I was showing 2 of our clients horses and was very busy , they were helping and enjoying the fair . I literally came out of a class just in time to see he had my 4 yr old daughter on a flume ride she was too short for ( another story ) going down that last steep drop with her screaming in terror as she lifted off the SEAT- the belt the only thing tethering her to the ride . OMG I ran through people and objects getting there screaming at the ride operator and my ex husband like a maniac and told him in front of everyone I was going to kill him when he came off that ride and I was serious . He was semi afraid of me on the way home and I told him he better be . I was done . Totally done.
I am totally freaked out by this child's death and my ex's behavior has been in my mind since this came out . I don't know what makes some people think like this .
The accident happened 4:15-4:30 in the afternoon. The sun set on Sunday at 7:05 PM.
Family’s attorney says grandpa placed her on the ledge and let go of her. He is claiming negligence on the part of the cruise line for having windows that open.
Her grandfather made a some stupid moves -- standing her up on a railing to bang on a window, not checking to be sure the window was actually there, not hanging on to her.
He may be just clueless about safety, dealing with dementia, dumber than a box of rock, ... hard to say what would possess a person to do something so careless.
But it is not the fault of the cruise line for having windows that open.
That grandfather is in h*ll. He thought the window was closed as he was holding her on the ledge and she usually pounds at the window! This time she pounded forward and flew out the open window! Horrible tragedy.
It the (bold) is more likely to be the other way around. The very earliest stages of dementia can be present years before it's recognized to the individual himself or diagnosed with subtle diminution in skills. My stepmother and a neighbor started having minor traffic accidents, maybe due to a reduction in depth perception.
For whatever reason (light, angle, distraction, even early dementia) the added details that the grandfather stood the little girl on the railing and then didn't hold on tight continuously strongly suggest he did, in fact, perceive the window to be closed.
His error - and it was that - was not the fault of the cruise line but an example that sometimes even caring individuals cannot always keep themselves or those in their charge safe. That kind of realization is terribly upsetting, certainly one that I personalized with added anxiety as my daughter sets off her first solo cruise tomorrow with her BF. No worries that she'll fall off the ship but we cannot always control horrible randomness. I found myself last night trying to buy a snorkeling vest for her concerned that those offered by the vendor might not be adequate. She and her BF thought I was crazy.
I agree with the bolded. He wasn't worried about her falling forward because he thought the window was closed. He wasn't worried about her falling back because he thought his body would brace her if she did.
As someone who ran through a glass door as a child, I don't have any trouble believing someone can make a mistake about a window being open or closed.
The reality is we are all subject to making erroneous decisions that can turn out very badly.
My ex husband was exactly like this with 2 of our 3 children and is why in part we are divorced . #3 was a late in life surprise and I left with her when she was 1 thank goodness . He just could not understand why I would divorce him over this after repeated attempts to get him to stop .
The final straw was at a state fair where I was showing 2 of our clients horses and was very busy , they were helping and enjoying the fair . I literally came out of a class just in time to see he had my 4 yr old daughter on a flume ride she was too short for ( another story ) going down that last steep drop with her screaming in terror as she lifted off the SEAT- the belt the only thing tethering her to the ride . OMG I ran through people and objects getting there screaming at the ride operator and my ex husband like a maniac and told him in front of everyone I was going to kill him when he came off that ride and I was serious . He was semi afraid of me on the way home and I told him he better be . I was done . Totally done.
I am totally freaked out by this child's death and my ex's behavior has been in my mind since this came out . I don't know what makes some people think like this .
This story has been on my mind also for several reasons, one of which are "trips to the past." My take is that how one might view the grandfather's action - and those that are similar - come down to intent and to setting.
While I fully concur with those who say we should use structures as they are intended, there almost certainly are times when I've used a railing or ledge to help support a squirming toddler whom I don't want to put down. I myself will lean against one in the expectation that it will remain upright.
Had I been on that ship with the friend I mentioned and saw him raise my daughter to a railing I would have been irritated and probably intervened thinking his intention primarily "balance beam time." Not acceptable for several reasons including that it potentially teaches kids to use railings as climbing gyms.
But if my extremely grounded brother had raised her I'd probably have said nothing, understanding the action for was her benefit (maybe to keep her from running off into H2O zone potentially tripping elderly adults as she went). 18-month old toddlers can be so fast with absolutely no sense. Sometimes you need to hold on to them while simultaneously keeping them reasonably quiet or entertained.
Folks probably hadn't settled into the loungers yet so it wouldn't have been a disturbance. There's no possibility the glass would have broken - for it's far stronger than, say, the glass at bakery counters that kids bat at or touch all the time. Winds and sea spray can hit that glass at gale force. That railing which is heavily varnished to protect against corrosive salt is slippery but, again, my brother I would have trusted.
Some actions are judgment calls where there can be disagreement even among reasonable people. Sometimes an impulsive action in retrospect appears less wise. In this case, it became tragic.
I agree with the bolded. He wasn't worried about her falling forward because he thought the window was closed. He wasn't worried about her falling back because he thought his body would brace her if she did.
As someone who ran through a glass door as a child, I don't have any trouble believing someone can make a mistake about a window being open or closed.
The reality is we are all subject to making erroneous decisions that can turn out very badly.
This reminds me of a friend's house when I was a kid. They had sliding glass doors in part of the house. To keep their kids safe, they had tape or some kind of decorative stickers on the doors, so kids could tell if the doors were open or closed.
I'm also thinking back to when I was a kid, and realizing, that I never saw a grandparent lift up an infant or small toddler. Babies were considered so delicate, that they were left to the mother to handle. A 1-1/2 year old toddler might have been considered big enough to lift up for a hug, but not much more. Mostly, non-custodial adults would be content with cooing at such a small child in her stroller, or playing with her hands and feet a little, as the mom held her. Maybe grandparents are more hands-on these days?
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 07-13-2019 at 11:59 AM..
This reminds me of a friend's house when I was a kid. They had a sliding glass door in part of the house. To keep their kids safe, they had tape or some kind of decorative stickers on the doors, so kids could tell if the doors were open or closed.
I'm also thinking back to when I was a kid, and realizing, that I never saw a grandparent lift up an infant or small toddler. Babies were considered so delicate, that they were left to the mother to handle. A 1-1/2 year old toddler might have been considered big enough to lift up for a hug, but not much more. Mostly, non-custodial adults would be content with cooing at such a small child in her stroller, or playing with her hands and feet a little, as the mom held her. Maybe grandparents are more hands-on these days?
Yep.....it happened at a friend's house. But, as soon as we got home from the emergency room, my father put some sort of decorative tape strips on our glass door!
More than once though I have also seen adults who were walking looking straight ahead (i.e. not fiddling with phones or something else) run smack into a wall of windows or a glass door at shopping malls.
I remember the doc who stitched my leg up saying it was a pretty common accident.
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