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From what I read so far, I cannot understand why anyone would think she should be let go. She was not even close to being a victim, she went out of her way to commit this crime, she was not being held against her will or anything, she was a full participant in her activities and even promoted it, I would bet she even assisted him in recruiting others.
Many people just prefer vigilante justice to real justice. They hate pimps, they hate people who patronize prostitutes, so if one of them gets murdered, they are happy.
From what I read so far, I cannot understand why anyone would think she should be let go. She was not even close to being a victim, she went out of her way to commit this crime, she was not being held against her will or anything, she was a full participant in her activities and even promoted it, I would bet she even assisted him in recruiting others.
If she is only 17 and all that good at planning and executing an enterprise combining all those accomplishments, give her a little education, and then responsibility for something that really needs to be fixed, like health care or the DMV.
Most counties do not have a large enough case load to employ a public defender. Some counties don't even have a practicing attorney in the county. And only a circuit judge to rotate around several counties.
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed. Any bail you pay will be returned to the attorney as his fee. The defendant will see him twice. First, he'll come to the jail to tell you the trial date. Second, maybe a year later, he'll come and tell you the plea bargain being offered and encourage you to accept because you are wasting his time and you will certainly lose at trial with him defending you. . The details may vary by state.
Go to the courthouse some day and watch a few criminal cases. It's better than a movie, and free. If you live in Florida, it's really a scream.
I can't remember where I saw that could be only a few states like California maybe high profile case some high end attorney wanted to get some news time did it pro-bono. I remember reading that somewhere for murder cases because defendants can win on appeal saying their public defender was incompetent
If she is only 17 and all that good at planning and executing an enterprise combining all those accomplishments, give her a little education, and then responsibility for something that really needs to be fixed, like health care or the DMV.
Let's try to get teens like that on our side.
Good idea, but in this case, it might be a little difficult. She already has a long arrest record for prostitution and grand theft auto. It probably would take a bit of work to reform her. And the outcrying of support for her violent actions is probably not helpful either. Hell, if anything, this will probably actually encourage more teen girls to try this type of lifestyle. Why shouldn't any girl commit prostitution, murder, arson, and car theft? If she gets caught, everybody will feel sorry for her, celebrity pop music stars will be lined up at her door for the chance to lend support, and strangers from all over the world, will be sending tens of thousands of dollars for her legal defense.
Yes, but that is not for her legal defence. It's for her jail supplies. A girl of her caliber has got to have stuff in jail. She can't just wear an orange jumpsuit, and eat jail food, when she is used to a high-flying criminal lifestyle, like she has had.
If she is only 17 and all that good at planning and executing an enterprise combining all those accomplishments, give her a little education, and then responsibility for something that really needs to be fixed, like health care or the DMV.
Let's try to get teens like that on our side.
What planning and enterprising? What accomplishments? Being a prostitute does not take much, lol.
As for my thought of her assisting in recruiting, that does not take much either, just going out and using her status as a female to identify and get close with victims, then take them in to be part of the trafficking operation. Having a female take part in trafficking operations is not uncommon, many females are part of running prostitution rings.
Exactly what you mean?
But she needs to be in prison if the accusations are true.
But she needs to be in prison if the accusations are true.
No, people do not need to be in prison as the first knee-jerk response to social failures. They need to be in prison as a last resort if they are a pathological threat to society or compassionate attempts at correction have failed.
The girl was no choir girl, but unfortunately, that isn't surprising given her background. Most of us are fortunate enough not to be in that world of bleak poverty, where young boys and girls have little hope for the future. It's easy for people with a solid background to say "why didn't that girl get a job instead of prostituting herself on backpage", because we are at least working class and don't live a subsistence/survival lifestyle. These young women quickly learn that their main ticket for survival is selling themselves. In the Cyntoia Brown case and this one, both women were young, Black, and poor and came from abusive environments. They compound things further by getting involved with abusive men to escape their own abusive households. Moreover, these girls view getting out of wrenching poverty as a futile struggle - case in point, this girl's mom. While she did work, it was low wage work, and definitely not enough to support her four children. Working long hours meant that she couldn't devote any time towards her children, so it comes as no surprise that they turned out the way that they did. Stories like this help me to appreciate the opportunities that I've been given and the choices I've made. I was fortunate never to be born in poverty, despite my mother also being a single mom. Likewise, my children are very fortunate too. They are able to be children and not have to want for much. They're allowed to pursue their dreams. One thing I liked about the Washington Post article is that they humanized Ms. Kizer. She did have aspirations at one time, but the environment she lived in was too much. Her mother had little money to encourage whatever pursuits that she had. You hear that all too often and it's shockingly sad. This isn't excusing the actions of people from such environments, but it does provide insight and clarity. We just can't truly relate to that level of despair. I remember watching The Wire years ago and it was tough to watch. Marginalized people, where kids grow up far too early into either hardened criminals, or prostitutes, or drug addicts, and having hordes of kids along the way.
On the flip side, this man was clearly a pervert, a vile human being, a predator with a penchant for young girls (including 12 year olds), specifically young, inner city girls. He specifically targeted poor young girls from the ghetto that he could groom, flatter, and degrade. With his ill-gotten money, he was able to live in a suburban home and indulge his sick desires. Sure, the girl could have decided to not allow herself to be pimped out. But he was an adult who was clearly in a position of control. Offering gobs of money and attention to poor, young girls in exchange for a wide variety of sex acts, can clearly be considered control. To me, that's no different than the sex tourists preying on child prostitutes in Southeast Asia - offering money and gifts to impoverished children in exchange for sexual favors. The thought of him touching and filming a 12 year old makes me want to vomit. It's also worth noting that two separate girls (including Ms. Kizer) mentioned that he had threatened to kill them. He deserved to be removed from this Earth as far as I'm concerned and it's sickening that this creep was allowed to operate for as long as he had. Ms. Kizer did the world a favor.
This girl should maybe get at most five years since the law is the law. But let's be honest, if this was a girl from the suburbs, this wouldn't be a discussion. Also, girls who are more well off probably wouldn't be such easy targets for the likes of Mr. Valor.
No, people do not need to be in prison as the first knee-jerk response to social failures. They need to be in prison as a last resort if they are a pathological threat to society or compassionate attempts at correction have failed.
So you are saying a person who murdered someone should only go to prison as a last resort?
So you are saying a person who murdered someone should only go to prison as a last resort?
Essentially, yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.
A person who murdered in cold blood for no apparent reason is very likely a sociopath, which is covered by the exclusion in my post. Murderers are a variegated bunch, one shoe does not fit all. If a person is clinically identified as a sociopath, we have pretty much already reached the last resort. That is not a difficult diagnosis to make, but in this girl's case, I am not informed to make it. But sociopaty is rare among women.
So automatically imprisoning for life a teenaged girl with record like the one described is absolutely overkill, in every sense of that word. So far, I have no reason to think she is any more than a disadvantaged runaway whose hole kept getting dug deeper. At what point, in the described scenario, could she have realistically turned her life around? The criminal justice system, to serve a useful purpose, is supposed to open options, not close them.
Last edited by cebuan; 12-24-2019 at 06:42 PM..
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