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That's an easy call for the owners who are residents but the owners who rent airbnb would be facing a sharp drop in rental revenue. Who would rent a condo where the pool is closed when there are a dozen nearby condos available where the pool is open? The pool and the ocean are very different. I love both and there is a time for each but they are very different experiences.
The latest report claims that the roof slab over the garage “never” revived waterproofing and it was not designed as an exterior slab. If this is the case, then there’s no wonder why the structure failed after 40 years❗️
Wow. That is really bad if true. How could something so glaringly wrong slip right by the construction inspectors?
They've signed a contract to demo the rest of the bldg. State is paying for it and they expect to get it done in 36 hours rather than the months they previously said it would take.
How long you're able to live elsewhere depends on your insurance policy. It would be covered under loss of use/additional living expenses. If you have $25,000 in coverage, you can stay in a hotel or rental until you go through the $25,000. If less than that, the amount of time insurance would pay for an alternate place would be shorter. Higher coverage would mean more time.
Would the insurance coverage for that would be the condo association insurance which covers the building? If so then individuals couldn't dictate the amount of coverage, I believe the insurance individuals purchase in condos pays out if the inside contents are damaged or destroyed, but wouldn't cover issues with the building itself, but I'm not sure.
How would better HOA mgmt have eliminated those large assessments? They found out in 2018 their building needed 16 million worth of repairs, due to a design flaw. That assessment would have been needed regardless of mgmt. No condo association has reserves anywhere close to numbers like that.
I agree there were probably people who couldn't come up with those sums. Many retired folks might not have even been able to get approved for loans. The assessments were probably more than what a lot of people bought the condos for decades ago.
I read that the repairs needed in 2018 were 9 million and that it almost doubled because they waited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenstyle
Here is an excerpt from one of the comments on that NY Times article. It states succinctly the outrageous majority mindset of that state.
“There are no laws in Florida that can compel action by a building association to make repairs; least of all have frequent and through, professional engineering inspections. Surely an inspection every 40 years is not in the interest of building residents, it is in the interest of not involving government.
Building associations may hire professionals but their recommendations may be put aside and there is no law that compels inspectors to notify government authorities, only the building board. Everyone is on their own. Resident complaints may be ignored forever or until the danger or any failures are so evident that action must be taken…building residents and owners need more power backed by law to resolve critical issues. Don't count on Florida. If you don't believe this, consider Disney and the incident in which a small child was killed by a gator. The state required nothing of Disney. The child paid the price of negligence.”
It's probably the same in a lot of states, not just Florida. Building like that should be inspected every 5 or 10 years depending on a set a variables like location, technology when built, if it has damage on record that's not bad enough to need fixing, stuff like that.
Would the insurance coverage for that would be the condo association insurance which covers the building? If so then individuals couldn't dictate the amount of coverage, I believe the insurance individuals purchase in condos pays out if the inside contents are damaged or destroyed, but wouldn't cover issues with the building itself, but I'm not sure.
The insurance for the buildings/common areas is paid by individual unit owners through their HOA fees (for example, I know that 24% of our $285 HOA fee goes for insurance for the property itself) but I don't know if the policy includes paying for alternate living quarters in the event the buildings are uninhabitable. Interesting question.
Here is an excerpt from one of the comments on that NY Times article. It states succinctly the outrageous majority mindset of that state.
“There are no laws in Florida that can compel action by a building association to make repairs; least of all have frequent and through, professional engineering inspections. Surely an inspection every 40 years is not in the interest of building residents, it is in the interest of not involving government.
Building associations may hire professionals but their recommendations may be put aside and there is no law that compels inspectors to notify government authorities, only the building board. Everyone is on their own. Resident complaints may be ignored forever or until the danger or any failures are so evident that action must be taken…building residents and owners need more power backed by law to resolve critical issues. Don't count on Florida. If you don't believe this, consider Disney and the incident in which a small child was killed by a gator. The state required nothing of Disney. The child paid the price of negligence.”
Whether it was required or not, the condo board apparently did give a copy of the 2018 report to the city.
Apparently, there had been some previous attempts to fix the leaking pool deck/garage ceiling with epoxy sealant and those repairs weren't holding up.
The board had recently sent out letters advising the owners of the special assessments that would be needed to repair the building. Apparently, they collectively decided to put off the repairs until the end of pool season which indicates to me that they did not appreciate just how bad the situation had become.
I read that the repairs needed in 2018 were 9 million and that it almost doubled because they waited.
It's probably the same in a lot of states, not just Florida. Building like that should be inspected every 5 or 10 years depending on a set a variables like location, technology when built, if it has damage on record that's not bad enough to need fixing, stuff like that.
I don't think we know if it was the condo board's delay. They can't do what residents won't vote for:
"Seven months before the collapse of Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Fla., the condominium association board and residents were still sparring over expensive repairs needed in their building."
A 2018 engineering report warned of "major structural damage" and a construction error in the building. The structural slab was deteriorating; it was flat instead of sloped. Water couldn't drain properly and pooled on the surface. The concrete began to crumble, and support columns rusted."
(Me) That was a LOT of money to come up with, app $100,000 per resident and I'm sure a lot would have been financially devastated by the bill if they could come up with it at all. What happened to the people who can't come up with it, and also couldn't sell due to the assessments? I can see why they would resist. I can also see how they might be confused about how urgent it was, especially since a city official who read the report came and told them the building was fine:
"As NPR first reported, a Surfside town official told residents a month after that October 2018 report that their building was "in good shape." In the next two years, though, the building's structural condition worsened. Follow-up inspections by the same engineer found growing problems. Older, multistory buildings in Miami-Dade County are required to undergo a 40-year safety recertification process."
But it seems the property manager did try to convince them:
New documents obtained by NPR reveal the board and residents were shown an urgent PowerPoint presentation from the property manager dated November 10-11, 2020. The language was stark. One slide explained in bold, uppercase lettering: WHY WE HAVE TO DO ALL THIS NOW.
Another warned, "This Will Be Expensive No Matter What Choices We Make. The main expenses by far are related to items that are not cosmetic or even seen: concrete, roof, generator room, fire wall."
The 2018 price tag to fix the building's problems was estimated at $9 million. But by 2020, those figures blossomed to more than $12 million. The board wanted to take out a $15 million line of credit to begin the repairs. Condo residents would have to pay their share, about $100,000 each."
The presentation outlined options for residents, including a vote to increase monetary reserves. Another slide said, "Our building is at a turning point. We have decisions to make as a family about our future." Residents were frustrated. Another slide warned: "Complaining Or Shouting At Each Other Doesn't Work! Voting Is The Best Way To Understand What The Majority Wants."
Months later, in April 2021, condo board president Jean Wodnicki wrote a letter to residents noting that discussion about the fixes had gone on for years and that problems with the concrete were accelerating. "When you can visually see the concrete spalling (cracking), that means that the rebar holding it together is rusting and deteriorating beneath the surface," Wodnicki wrote.
Documents provided to NPR show the board approved seeking a $15 million line of credit on April 13, 2021. The structural repairs had not yet begun when the condo collapsed two months later."
So it doesn't sound like any one entity is to blame. It sounds like there was infighting and disagreements about it since 2018, and again the board cannot do anything without majority approval from other residents.
When my ex and I had our condo down the shore, everything took longer because no one could come to a consensus on even stupid things, like what color the new roof tiles should be. For something like this, requiring every resident to come up with at least $100,000, I don't know that any condo board, who are not professionals but volunteer owners, could have convinced enough residents in a timelier manner. And again, I think that city official who seemed to dismiss the report didn't help matters.
I read that the repairs needed in 2018 were 9 million and that it almost doubled because they waited.
It's probably the same in a lot of states, not just Florida. Building like that should be inspected every 5 or 10 years depending on a set a variables like location, technology when built, if it has damage on record that's not bad enough to need fixing, stuff like that.
Some states are way more regulated, like NJ. Others pride themselves in being anti-regulation bastions.
How long you're able to live elsewhere depends on your insurance policy. It would be covered under loss of use/additional living expenses. If you have $25,000 in coverage, you can stay in a hotel or rental until you go through the $25,000. If less than that, the amount of time insurance would pay for an alternate place would be shorter. Higher coverage would mean more time.
That was what I thought... so basically, they could be SOL...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
How would better HOA mgmt have eliminated those large assessments? They found out in 2018 their building needed 16 million worth of repairs, due to a design flaw. That assessment would have been needed regardless of mgmt. No condo association has reserves anywhere close to numbers like that.
I agree there were probably people who couldn't come up with those sums. Many retired folks might not have even been able to get approved for loans. The assessments were probably more than what a lot of people bought the condos for decades ago.
I assume the claim of "poor management" assumes that the repairs may have been less had previous maintenance not been kicked down the road (though in the case of a design flaw, not necessarily).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
Would the insurance coverage for that would be the condo association insurance which covers the building? If so then individuals couldn't dictate the amount of coverage, I believe the insurance individuals purchase in condos pays out if the inside contents are damaged or destroyed, but wouldn't cover issues with the building itself, but I'm not sure.
I'm not sure if coverage for a condo is more like homeowner's insurance (of a single-family home) or renter's insurance, but either way, it should/could cover alternate housing in case of disaster, AFAIK (at least, I don't know why it wouldn't).
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