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For those of us not exposed to sex abuse at an early age, it is hard to imagine the lives of those who have been. I try not to judge in these matters. But I have always thought that Giuffre is motivated by rage at her treatment. I don’t know if this is correct.
Her coming forward is good for society though. It forces us to witness how powerful men can abuse young people and largely get away with it. As far as I’m concerned, she’s entitled.
Well, I came from a family where I lost my father at age five and grew up highly insecure with low self confidence and needy for older male attention and approval. I got taken advantage of because of that neediness many times. Lucky for you you had a strong foundation. Many girls do not (go to a strip club and poll how many of the girls had fathers at home growing up). I don’t see it as a character defect.
I didn't say it's a character defect, for the record. I just said that I don't have that propensity and never had and neither did my daughters and now my granddaughters don't have it either. And yes, I did have a father, who was an enabler for my seriously mentally ill mother but hey, he was present! Actually, it's HIS mother, who had the nerve to divorce my dad's unfaithful and abusive father, who I credit with actually raising me with great love. I admired her so incredibly much (she remained single the rest of her life which was interesting - and worked in a dime store and lived in a very plain little clapboard house in rural Arkansas).
So I don't know that I had a strong foundation dad wise but I did have some strong women as mentors and I'm really grateful for them.
And I'm not particularly unusual - lots and lots of 17 year old girls don't feel victimized by men and have had dads present in their lives - or strong women - or fill in the blank with whoever. That was my only point - my only point - that not all young women are as vulnerable as some others are, for various reasons.
Here's the generalization about teenaged girls that I was responding to (along with dizzybint's comment):
Quote:
With all due respect, you have never been a 17 year old girl… but I have, and I have a 17 year old daughter, still at school. It is very difficult for girls of that age to be assertive towards adults, and to say “No” to them where necessary.
That's a generalization. No, it's not very difficult for any girl that age to be assertive towards adults, and to say "NO" to them when necessary. I'm sure it's difficult for SOME girls, but definitely not all girls. It boils down to so many factors - was there a father in the house, personality, other power figures growing up, even birth order.
Firstly why would Maxwell want to testify for Giuffre, the woman that has helped put her away.
Secondly Maxwell will be advised to concentrate on her own appeal which could be put at risk by becoming involved in other cases.
As for her having sex with Prince Andrew, there is no real evidence, apart from hearsay.
However there is evidence and witness statements to suggest Giuffre was an escort (prostitute) who lied about her age, and was 17 when she first claimed to have met Andrew.
Once again the age of consent in Great Britain is normally 16, however it's 18 for escort work, and prostitution is not illegal.
There is also no evidence to suggest the Prince was involved in sex trafficking, and he has three constant Scotland Yard Close Protection Officers as well as armed Officers guarding his house at Windsor Lodge.
I have not suggested that Maxwell would or should testify for Giuffre.
I have not suggested that Maxwell would or should testify for Giuffre.
You stated that you wondered whether Maxwell would appear as a witness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke
I wonder whether Ghislaine Maxwell will be a witness at the jury trial with Giuffre and Prince Andrew. He denies that Maxwell is a friend. Obviously he has met her, but it sounds like his friendship was with Epstein (financial friendship?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran
For those of us not exposed to sex abuse at an early age, it is hard to imagine the lives of those who have been. I try not to judge in these matters. But I have always thought that Giuffre is motivated by rage at her treatment. I don’t know if this is correct.
Her coming forward is good for society though. It forces us to witness how powerful men can abuse young people and largely get away with it. As far as I’m concerned, she’s entitled.
Giuffre was 17 when she met Andrew and according to witnesses was an Escort/Prostitute who lied about her age.
The age of consent in Great Britain is 16 and France where Maxwell was born to a French mother it is 15, whilst in many other European countries it is 14.
Whilst you are not supposed to work as an Escort until you reach 18, who is to know if you lie about your age. It's difficult to say whether a woman is 17 or 18.
Also Prostitution is not illegal in many countries including Great Britain and most importantly of all Prince Andrew denies having sex with this woman and there is no real proof he did.
In Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland), the act of engaging in sex as part of an exchange of sexual services for money is legal, but a number of related activities, including soliciting in a public place, kerb crawling, owning or managing a brothel, pimping and pandering, are crimes.
In terms of Escort sites and young girls advertising themselves there are lots of them just google Escorts in London.
As for Ghislaine Maxwell, she could receive a 65 year prison sentence, which is a lot more than actual organised crime figures have received in relation to the exploitation and trafficking of girls on mass, and we are talking hundreds. It's also a lot more than people smugglers who have left people to die in the back of lorries.
I don't hear the media response or outrage in relation far more serious cases on both sides of the Atlantic, and these cases are quite common, and everyone knows Romanian, Albanian, Bulgarian, Russian etc organised crime is behind a lot of it.
You stated that you wondered whether Maxwell would appear as a witness.
Giuffre was 17 when she met Andrew and according to witnesses was an Escort/Prostitute who lied about her age.
The age of consent in Great Britain is 16 and France where Maxwell was born to a French mother it is 15, whilst in many other European countries it is 14.
Whilst you are not supposed to work as an Escort until you reach 18, who is to know if you lie about your age. It's difficult to say whether a woman is 17 or 18.
Also Prostitution is not illegal in many countries including Great Britain and most importantly of all Prince Andrew denies having sex with this woman and there is no real proof he did.
In Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland), the act of engaging in sex as part of an exchange of sexual services for money is legal, but a number of related activities, including soliciting in a public place, kerb crawling, owning or managing a brothel, pimping and pandering, are crimes.
In terms of Escort sites and young girls advertising themselves there are lots of them just google Escorts in London.
As for Ghislaine Maxwell, she could receive a 65 year prison sentence, which is a lot more than actual organised crime figures have received in relation to the exploitation and trafficking of girls on mass, and we are talking hundreds. It's also a lot more than people smugglers who have left people to die in the back of lorries.
I don't hear the media response or outrage in relation far more serious cases on both sides of the Atlantic, and these cases are quite common, and everyone knows Romanian, Albanian, Bulgarian, Russian etc organised crime is behind a lot of it.
"I'm curious whether Ghislaine will appear as a witness for Prince Andrew."
Your response #297 quoting that comment:
"Firstly why would Maxwell want to testify for Giuffre, the woman that has helped put her away."
Prince Andrew has stated in his own defence that he does not know Ghislaine Maxwell that well, so why would he use her as a witness.
Furthermore Maxwell has her own on going appeal and her lawyers will instruct her not to get involved.
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