Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think a better way to rank schools is with a curve.
Come up with 10 criteria to rank a school by. Pick 100 schools. Rank them from top to bottom in each category.
The top school in the category gets 100 points, the bottom gets 0.
Add up the scores for each school and the school with the most points is on top.
I'd start with objective and wide ranging categories. Some would be winner takes all and others would be based on internal effort.
For a school to be on the top 10 of these, it would have to be truly spectacular.
1. Total number of NMSF as a % of graduating seniors.
2. Graduation rates for kids beginning in 9th grade.
3. Average SAT/ACT scores.
4. Total number of Kids who make national lists like Intel, Westinghouse, AMC, Debate champs, etc.
5. Total number of NMSF.
6. Graduation rates for minorities.
7. Number of seniors going to college or military as % of student body.
8. Outcomes of students 10 years later by salary average.
9. Incidents of violence in schools.
10. Subject majors of specialize teachers, ie History teachers have History degrees, Phsyics teachers with physics degrees, etc.
I think we're in violent agreement. I'd have some quibbles with the methodology you rattled off, but they're small in scope and hey, that was just off the top of your head anyway. You'd probably tweak it yourself given a few hours to think about it.
I think a better way to rank schools is with a curve.
Come up with 10 criteria to rank a school by. Pick 100 schools. Rank them from top to bottom in each category.
The top school in the category gets 100 points, the bottom gets 0.
Add up the scores for each school and the school with the most points is on top.
I'd start with objective and wide ranging categories. Some would be winner takes all and others would be based on internal effort.
For a school to be on the top 10 of these, it would have to be truly spectacular.
1. Total number of NMSF as a % of graduating seniors.
2. Graduation rates for kids beginning in 9th grade.
3. Average SAT/ACT scores.
4. Total number of Kids who make national lists like Intel, Westinghouse, AMC, Debate champs, etc.
5. Total number of NMSF.
6. Graduation rates for minorities.
7. Number of seniors going to college or military as % of student body.
8. Outcomes of students 10 years later by salary average.
9. Incidents of violence in schools.
10. Subject majors of specialize teachers, ie History teachers have History degrees, Phsyics teachers with physics degrees, etc.
Outcomes of students 10 years later by salary averages? Well, that's a Dallas metric if I've ever seen one. (And as far as #9, at the better schools no, you're not going to have people shanking each other in the halls. You do have a lot of quieter toxicities -- bullying, drug abuse, binge drinking, eating disorders, depression, anxiety,etc.)
Yes, that's one of my big issues with the rating systems of both publications - IIRC, they give a fairly heavy weight to AP/AICE/etc. tests TAKEN relative to size of student body, moreso than the actual results. That's like focusing on the fact that 90% of the student body took, say, the SAT, and downplaying the fact that the average score was 900 (V+M). That's likely an even larger issue with these ratings as AP testing can vary considerably by school and region, even among top flight schools. By contrast, the SAT/ACT are taken by the vast majority of students at the "best" schools.
Even by that metric, TAG and SEM rank very highly:
1) 1222 - Talented/Gifted magnet (Dallas)
2) 1215 - Highland Park (Highland Park)
3) 1204 - Science/Engineering magnet (Dallas)
4) 1178 - North Hills (charter)
5) 1176 - Westlake (charter)
And by demographic:
1318 - W - Science/Engineering magnet (Dallas)
1301 - Asian - Paschal (FW)
1295 - Asian - Highland Park (Highland Park)
1278 - Asian - West (Plano)
1274 - Mix - Highland Park (Highland Park)
1269 - W - Talented/Gifted magnet (Dallas)
1266 - Asian - Senior (Plano)
1263 - Asian - Science/Engineering magnet (Dallas)
1263 - Asian - Garland (Garland)
1248 - Asian - Carroll (Southlake Carroll)
Even by that metric, TAG and SEM rank very highly:
In DFW, sure, and that's great.
NATIONALLY? Not even close. New Trier (an "open" Chicago area public, analogous to Highland Park) has the same or slightly higher SAT/ACT scores than TAG, for a class that's...what, 10 times the size, and only "screened" by being affluent enough to live on Chicago's North Shore (which is probably not as exclusive overall in terms of home prices as Park Cities). Northside Prep (a Chicago area magnet that's a closer match to TAG) has considerably higher scores than TAG.
And of course as previously noted, the famed Stuyvesant in NYC blows the doors of TAG. Average ACT over 31? AVERAGE? That's insane.
TAG's an awfully good school and deserves major props, but no way am I buying "top 5 high school NATIONWIDE".
NATIONALLY? Not even close. New Trier (an "open" Chicago area public, analogous to Highland Park) has the same or slightly higher SAT/ACT scores than TAG, for a class that's...what, 10 times the size, and only "screened" by being affluent enough to live on Chicago's North Shore (which is probably not as exclusive overall in terms of home prices as Park Cities). Northside Prep (a Chicago area magnet that's a closer match to TAG) has considerably higher scores than TAG.
And of course as previously noted, the famed Stuyvesant in NYC blows the doors of TAG. Average ACT over 31? AVERAGE? That's insane.
TAG's an awfully good school and deserves major props, but no way am I buying "top 5 high school NATIONWIDE".
No, it's probably not, but you live where you live and it's one of the best schools in our fair metroplex. And for what it's worth, TAG has a LOT more economically disadvantaged and minorities than Highland Park, and DISD does not have the relentless cram-school culture to get into TAG that Stuyvesant or Bronx Science has.
If we had a regional magnet that took the TAG & SEM students plus the best of Plano, HP, etc -- in other words, drawing from the same size pool as NYC -- then we'd have a school that would easily be at the level of Stuyvesant. It'd be one of the best in the country.
No, it's probably not, but you live where you live and it's one of the best schools in our fair metroplex. And for what it's worth, TAG has a LOT more economically disadvantaged and minorities than Highland Park, and DISD does not have the relentless cram-school culture to get into TAG that Stuyvesant or Bronx Science has.
If we had a regional magnet that took the TAG & SEM students plus the best of Plano, HP, etc -- in other words, drawing from the same size pool as NYC -- then we'd have a school that would easily be at the level of Stuyvesant. It'd be one of the best in the country.
Sure, it's one of the best (if not the best) in the Metroplex, but the rankings are NATIONAL rankings, and that's what most of the discussions are about re: accurate rankings. And of course TAG has worse socioeconomic demographics than HPHS, but again, it's a MAGNET so it can select the best from all of DISD. And it has a class of ~55 or so, out of a total senior class of ~7,500 in all of DISD.
It's just a different school than HPHS, for example. It's great at what it does, and deserves major props for it, but it's a different school.
As for "a school that is one of the best in the country" as a regional magnet...well, maybe, sure, I guess, if nowhere else had something similar. Again, I moved down from Chicago, and most of the schools in Chicagoland had higher SAT/ACT results than their comps in DFW (granted, I was mainly looking at the "affluent" areas with a smattering of middle to upper middles and it wasn't a comprehensive analysis). Chicago's top magnets have better SAT/ACT than TAG and SEM with larger class sizes. If you had a hypothetical school that took, say, Northside Prep and had it pull from the top students at Whitney Young (sorta like SEM) and Stevenson (sorta like Plano West) and New Trier (again, kinda like HP) and whatnot, I have a tough time believing that your hypothetical magnet would beat that Chicago hypothetical magnet.
But that's about building air castles. Back in the real world, TAG is a damn good school but probably not Top 5 in the country, no matter what US News and Newsweek say. But since I packed up and moved here, I'm more interested in rankings within DFW than those between here, Chicago, SF and NYC. The latter is a (pardon the pun) academic exercise.
Sure, it's one of the best (if not the best) in the Metroplex, but the rankings are NATIONAL rankings, and that's what most of the discussions are about re: accurate rankings. And of course TAG has worse socioeconomic demographics than HPHS, but again, it's a MAGNET so it can select the best from all of DISD. And it has a class of ~55 or so, out of a total senior class of ~7,500 in all of DISD.
It's just a different school than HPHS, for example. It's great at what it does, and deserves major props for it, but it's a different school.
As for "a school that is one of the best in the country" as a regional magnet...well, maybe, sure, I guess, if nowhere else had something similar. Again, I moved down from Chicago, and most of the schools in Chicagoland had higher SAT/ACT results than their comps in DFW (granted, I was mainly looking at the "affluent" areas with a smattering of middle to upper middles and it wasn't a comprehensive analysis). Chicago's top magnets have better SAT/ACT than TAG and SEM with larger class sizes. If you had a hypothetical school that took, say, Northside Prep and had it pull from the top students at Whitney Young (sorta like SEM) and Stevenson (sorta like Plano West) and New Trier (again, kinda like HP) and whatnot, I have a tough time believing that your hypothetical magnet would beat that Chicago hypothetical magnet.
But that's about building air castles. Back in the real world, TAG is a damn good school but probably not Top 5 in the country, no matter what US News and Newsweek say. But since I packed up and moved here, I'm more interested in rankings within DFW than those between here, Chicago, SF and NYC. The latter is a (pardon the pun) academic exercise.
Why would my hypothetical regional magnet lose to Chicago's? Plano and HP and Dallas all have extraordinarily high-performing students drawing from an educated, professional population. This is a major metroplex and growing every day.
Is TAG one of top 5 in the country? Realistically probably not, but neither is Plano or HP or St. Marks. The greased-chute-into-Harvard schools are the east coast private prep schools, not any of us over here in flyover land. But Harvard and its ilk certainly know what TAG and SEM are, just as they know what Plano and HP and St. Marks are, which is probably what ultimately matters to most of the professional population on this board. It's a great school and the nuances of the rankings are just splitting hairs. If you've got a smart kid, TAG and SEM will serve you as well (and possibly better) than the other heavy-hitters here.
Why would my hypothetical regional magnet lose to Chicago's? Plano and HP and Dallas all have extraordinarily high-performing students drawing from an educated, professional population. This is a major metroplex and growing every day.
Because New Trier and Stevenson and Whitney Young and Northside all ALSO have extraordinarily high-performing students, with substantially BETTER metrics than HP/Plano/Dallas, and they also draw from an educated, professional populace.
However, this is rapidly getting into a p!ssing contest, and a theoretical one at that. Chicago is one of only three metro areas clearly larger than DFW in population. But the point is that DFW is hardly unique in having highly skilled kids. Which, again, comes into play when talking about national ratings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramona72
Is TAG one of top 5 in the country? Realistically probably not, but neither is Plano or HP or St. Marks. The greased-chute-into-Harvard schools are the east coast private prep schools, not any of us over here in flyover land. But Harvard and its ilk certainly know what TAG and SEM are, just as they know what Plano and HP and St. Marks are, which is probably what ultimately matters to most of the professional population on this board. It's a great school and the nuances of the rankings are just splitting hairs. If you've got a smart kid, TAG and SEM will serve you as well (and possibly better) than the other heavy-hitters here.
Yes, and other than one or two posters, I doubt anyone would disagree. The problem remains getting into TAG or SEM.
Why would my hypothetical regional magnet lose to Chicago's? Plano and HP and Dallas all have extraordinarily high-performing students drawing from an educated, professional population. This is a major metroplex and growing every day.
Is TAG one of top 5 in the country? Realistically probably not, but neither is Plano or HP or St. Marks. The greased-chute-into-Harvard schools are the east coast private prep schools, not any of us over here in flyover land. But Harvard and its ilk certainly know what TAG and SEM are, just as they know what Plano and HP and St. Marks are, which is probably what ultimately matters to most of the professional population on this board. It's a great school and the nuances of the rankings are just splitting hairs. If you've got a smart kid, TAG and SEM will serve you as well (and possibly better) than the other heavy-hitters here.
This is CD world, in a Dallas forum Chicago loses!
This is CD world, in a Dallas forum Chicago loses!
I believe the proper internet message board phraseology is "Dallas ROOLZ! [Insert Name of Other City Here] DROOLS!"
Although according to the Newsweek rankings from that other thread, it's a school in Kentucky that took #1, so New York City, the Bay Area, Chicago, Dallas, and everywhere else must bow down in submission to the metropolis of Bowling Green!
(On a serious note, you just know the people at that school are crowing about their ranking to the high heavens. Bet the kids there feel good about, just as I'm sure TAG does with their ranking)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'd have some quibbles with the methodology you rattled off, but they're small in scope and hey, that was just off the top of your head anyway. You'd probably tweak it yourself given a few hours to think about it.
