Dallas affordability (Plano, Paris, San Diego: lease, home, buying)

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by coffeebreakwhatever

You are right there. I have been trying to relocate back to Texas for a year now.. and as a retired/senior...can't afford it! And for one reason...high property taxes. Generally speaking, PT's add $300 - $500 (usually closer to $500) to your mortgage payment! I know there is no state income tax and that might help a little if you get a paycheck, but for us retired folks, it helps us none! I used to be a mortgage loan processor.. I know how the qualification works. I can't find a single "loop hole" other than the homestead exemp and senior exemp and they don't tell me specifics....but that I have ato apply and be approved.
I see housing sky rocket all over the state and just wonder.. how are they affording it? I look at $230k homes with $100k down.. and the payment with PT's is $1250 plus. If I didn't have that down, it'd be so much higher. Most don't have that much down. I only have it when I sell my house in CA. So, other than apartments, I just don't get it. And most of the houses I see... are more in the $300plus range.

You can 100% count on your homestead and over 65 exemptions being approved as long as you meet the criteria. They deny no one who qualifies.

I'm estimating a MUCH lower PITI payment than you on a $230k home with $100k down. Using Dallas' tax rates, your monthly payment would be about $950-975/mo, not $1250:

$640 30yr mortgage @ 4.25%
$250 property taxes @ $3,000/yr with Homestead & Over 65 exemptions
$60-85 insurance, depending on coverage needed

[TheOverdog]

Then what do you think it should be compared with? Most seem to be comparing it not to peer cities but to the past, when DFW was in much more dire economic straights. It's like my visiting my grandparents and listening to them complaining that Coke doesn't cost a quarter anymore.

BTW, if you are actually curious why housing prices are higher in DFW (and everywhere else) and not just interested in yelling at clouds, then read this:
http://idiosyncraticwhisk.blogspot.c...s-will-be.html

It's right there in black and white.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

You can 100% count on your homestead and over 65 exemptions being approved as long as you meet the criteria. They deny no one who qualifies.

I'm estimating a MUCH lower PITI payment than you on a $230k home with $100k down. Using Dallas' tax rates, your monthly payment would be about $950-975/mo, not $1250:

$640 30yr mortgage @ 4.25%
$250 property taxes @ $3,000/yr with Homestead & Over 65 exemptions
$60-85 insurance, depending on coverage needed

That is all fine and dandy. OP makes 20$/hr and made no mention of a substantial nest egg.

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

Personally I'm tired of the comparisons to NYC and San Francisco, Rome and Paris(okay I'm exaggerating)

Apples and meatballs comparisons in my view. Yes, DFW is less costly than any of those places. AS IT SHOULD BE.

Question is whether it should cost what it does now to live here. It being cheaper than Los Angeles isn't enough why for most people. California's cities / NYC and environs / Seattle/ Toronto/Paris/ Chicago/ Rome etc are expensive for a (good) reason. I wouldn't lump Dallas in there with those cities.

Although I agree that DFW pales in comparison to the greatest cities in the world, I'm not following your argument about what it "should" cost to live here. It costs what it costs because people are willing to pay it. Should some brand new high end luxury car cost over $100,000? If someone is willing to pay that price, then yes it should.

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Exactly.


The only things DFW had going for it were:


1.) Jobs
2.) Affordability (below national average cost of living)




Now one of those is gone.

Oh come on. I know you hate it here, but this is exaggerated to such a degree that it is nonsensical. DFW as seen from the interstate is unappealing, and I would agree with anyone on that. But many of the areas away from commercial areas are clean, new, safe, with good schools, nice homes, lovely stores. The weather is fine most of the year. People are friendly. There is plenty to do (and no I don't mean just shopping and going out to eat). There is everything from the opera to the zoos to sporting events. Where we live now is WAY nicer than where we lived in NC (and most people seem to believe NC is some sort of utopia).

I get that DFW is not everyone's cup of tea...but neither is it the 9th circle of hell
that so many posters on here make it out to be.

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by Threestep

That is all fine and dandy. OP makes 20$/hr and made no mention of a substantial nest egg.

Turtle Creek was not responding to the OP.

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by calgirlinnc

Although I agree that DFW pales in comparison to the greatest cities in the world, I'm not following your argument about what it "should" cost to live here. It costs what it costs because people are willing to pay it. Should some brand new high end luxury car cost over $100,000? If someone is willing to pay that price, then yes it is.

I do think that the 'should' argument is a more valid one than the "but (Insert world city here) is way more expensive!" one. Those cities are, have been and will remain more expensive than most places for time immemorial save for a major event for too many reasons to count. They are not comparisons for Dallas due to major differences.

I actually disagree with that idea ( that real estate should cost whatever a person wants to pay for it). It sounds like realtor/salesman speak to me and is the kind of thinking that leads to bubbles and busts. Most goods have a value. Some more than others and there is no going way above or way below actual values without consequence. Things have a way of going back where they should be whether thats up or down. Call it a supply demand curve or whatever. But no, things aren't just worth whatever people decide to pay for them more so in real estate. People will and do pay whatever they want due to whatever myriad of reasons but its worth what its worth.

It is feasible that DFW was undervalued for a long time. It is also feasible( and the opinion of some) that it is now overvalued. Time will tell where that pendulum finally rests.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by calgirlinnc

I get that DFW is not everyone's cup of tea...but neither is it the 9th circle of hell that so many posters on here make it out to be.

I was born and raised here, so I feel pretty qualified to judge DFW based on my criteria of what I like to see/do in a city where I choose to live. YMMV.


I respectfully bow out of the conversation now because I have nothing of value to contribute to the OP and I have no more desire to participate in the same conversation for the 100th time.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

Question is whether it should cost what it does now to live here. It being cheaper than Los Angeles isn't enough why for most people. California's cities / NYC and environs / Seattle/ Toronto/Paris/ Chicago/ Rome etc are expensive for a (good) reason. I wouldn't lump Dallas in there with those cities.

True, but with the exception of Chicago, DFW is still SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than any of those places. I mean it's not even close. Not even remotely close. That's the rub. Seattle median single family home price is $475,000, San Diego is $605,000, DFW is $255,000. I guess it's impossible to determine what the equilibrium premium on coastal housing should be, since everyone would have a different opinion on how much extra they would pay to live in Seattle or San Diego etc., but it's just still not even close at this point price wise IMO.

https://www.nar.realtor/sites/defaul...2017-08-16.pdf

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Exactly.


The only things DFW had going for it were:


1.) Jobs
2.) Affordability (below national average cost of living)




Now one of those is gone.

But #1 is in abundance and that ultimately is the most important thing that drives everything else. I suppose the risk is that if #2 continues to deteriorate, then #1 may be at risk, but given the logistics necessary for corporate relocations and Dallas reputation as a Business city and central U.S. location, I don't see that becoming an issue anytime in the near future.

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

True, but with the exception of Chicago, DFW is still SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than any of those places. I mean it's not even close. Not even remotely close. That's the rub. Seattle median single family home price is $475,000, San Diego is $605,000, DFW is $255,000. I guess it's impossible to determine what the equilibrium premium on coastal housing should be, since everyone would have a different opinion on how much extra they would pay to live in Seattle or San Diego etc., but it's just still not even close at this point price wise IMO.

https://www.nar.realtor/sites/defaul...2017-08-16.pdf

Its not, and it shouldn't be. I mean the minute it is, what would the sense in living here be? I guess my point was there is a reason, old, coastal locales have been desirable to mankind since evolution and in no way should interior, nature challenged plains cost anywhere near the same. So yes. DFW should cost much much less.

The problem here is that median is now at 255k.

255k is not an acceptable mean price for housing in DFW given the average household income of people in the area. Sure some isolated areas ( Plano, Park Cites etc) will register higher household incomes, but come on people....Without getting into the (Many) details of why, that number is too high.

And yes numbers are "too high" in several places around the country. Some places can/will weather those highs better than others.