Dallas affordability (Arlington, Garland, Grand Prairie: homes, high schools, tornadoes)

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

Personally I'm tired of the comparisons to NYC and San Francisco, Rome and Paris(okay I'm exaggerating)

Apples and meatballs comparisons in my view. Yes, DFW is less costly than any of those places. AS IT SHOULD BE.

Question is whether it should cost what it does now to live here. It being cheaper than Los Angeles isn't enough why for most people. California's cities / NYC and environs / Seattle/ Toronto/Paris/ Chicago/ Rome etc are expensive for a (good) reason. I wouldn't lump Dallas in there with those cities.

I'm personally tied of a small set of people here bagging on Dallas as if doing so make them feel superior or otherwise feel better about themselves.

As cities mature and become more important they tend to become more expensive. People who make below the local median tend to suffer. People who make above the local median tend to not suffer. People who think like investors tend to be happy with nice yoy home value appreciation. People who don't think like investors or some how cannot understand the difference between relatively high property tax burdens and high overall tax burdens tend to be unhappy.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by Threestep

That is all fine and dandy. OP makes 20$/hr and made no mention of a substantial nest egg.

I was responding to the post I quoted, not to OP....who, by the way, has disappeared.

[djslakor]

I could see how making it in DFW as a non professional, single person would be challenging.

However, for a 2 income household or a single "professional" level income household, it seems DFW is still very easy to make it in, especially compared to other major metros.

I do think the days of buying a brand new mcmansion on a mcdonald's income is indeed long gone, though.

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

I was born and raised here, so I feel pretty qualified to judge DFW based on my criteria of what I like to see/do in a city where I choose to live. YMMV.


I respectfully bow out of the conversation now because I have nothing of value to contribute to the OP and I have no more desire to participate in the same conversation for the 100th time.

What about other people who have lived all around the country/world? Our opinions don't count because we aren't natives?

It's fine if you have different criteria and value other things more highly, for example access to the beach or to nature, that DFW doesn't offer. That's fair enough. But that is not the same as saying "DFW has only 2 things going for it," which you often state as fact, when it isn't even remotely true.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

Its not, and it shouldn't be. I mean the minute it is, what would the sense in living here be? I guess my point was there is a reason, old, coastal locales have been desirable to mankind since evolution and in no way should interior, nature challenged plains cost anywhere near the same. So yes. DFW should cost much much less.

The problem here is that median is now at 255k.

255k is not an acceptable mean price for housing in DFW given the average household income of people in the area. Sure some isolated areas ( Plano, Park Cites etc) will register higher household incomes, but come on people....Without getting into the (Many) details of why, that number is too high.

And yes numbers are "too high" in several places around the country. Some places can/will weather those highs better than others.

I guess, what is your definition of "much much less"? Housing is almost 50% lower than Seattle and almost 60% lower than San Diego. Median HH income is actually higher in Dallas than San Diego, and not too far behind Seattle. I used to live in San Diego, it's a very nice place, but housing costs are nowhere near the same ballpark and incomes are about the same, if not higher, in Dallas. 60% lower home price is really not close at all.

I think we're in agreement that it should cost less to live here than "better" coastal cities, I guess how much less that cost should be is up to each individual to decide. To me it still seems significantly cheaper. Now if median home price were say, $550k in DFW and $605k in San Diego than that to me would make a little bit stronger argument because they are closer together. And I agree, at that point, what would be the point in living here? But the difference is still too wide IMO, even in spite of the price gains here in recent years.

[TexanByMarriage]

I've been reading this forums for a couple of months, and amazed by how many threads that turn into a discussion like this. Clearly a lot of people have not enjoyed the fruits of city development in terms of better paying jobs, and just remain hurt by COL instead. Obviously it's irrelevant for those people how COL compares to other cities - for them it has gone up.

Our family is considering a move to Dallas within 1-2 years, and I enjoy reading all the positives and negatives about the city. Some are very repetitive, though

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by EDS_

I'm personally tied of a small set of people here bagging on Dallas as if doing so make them feel superior or otherwise feel better about themselves.

As cities mature and become more important they tend to become more expensive. People who make below the local median tend to suffer. People who make above the local median tend to not suffer. People who think like investors tend to be happy with nice yoy home value appreciation. People who don't think like investors or some how cannot understand the difference between relatively high property tax burdens and high overall tax burdens tend to be unhappy.

There's nothing wrong with growth as i assume most people would agree. The issues is whether it is balanced and at a pace of that is favorable/ too fast/ too slow for those that have to live with it.

I don't think its a mystery why rapid growth can present a problem in some situations. Many kinds of people are concerned about this market and many of those people make significantly more than the median income.
We all live in our respective bubbles, but the vast majority of DFW locals do not have incomes to support the current market. They are feeling the pinch. That may be outside of the world of most posters on CD but that doesn't make it less so.

Investing in DFW real estate now is an expensive proposition for those late to the party and i'm not certain how profitable it would be for the average person unless one is looking to hold properties for lease.

Hopefully things settle down to a more 'normal' pace and these affordability threads can go the way of the dodo.

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

I guess, what is your definition of "much much less"? Housing is almost 50% lower than Seattle and almost 60% lower than San Diego. Median HH income is actually higher in Dallas than San Diego, and not too far behind Seattle. I used to live in San Diego, it's a very nice place, but housing costs are nowhere near the same ballpark and incomes are about the same, if not higher, in Dallas. 60% lower home price is really not close at all.

I think we're in agreement that it should cost less to live here than "better" coastal cities, I guess how much less that cost should be is up to each individual to decide. To me it still seems significantly cheaper. Now if median home price were say, $550k in DFW and $605k in San Diego than that to me would make a little bit stronger argument because they are closer together. And I agree, at that point, what would be the point in living here? But the difference is still too wide IMO, even in spite of the price gains here in recent years.

Well i moved here from elsewhere as well and when i got here it was a whole lot cheaper than it is now( can you imagine that?) So its the locals I empathize with. I find it interesting how people move here for the very reasons DFW locals are now complaining about (Living in their previous locations just got too expensive to justify) seem to lose sight of what that is like.

It means nothing to a person from CA to say "If the mean was 550k in DFW" but to someone that has lived here all their lives that is a completely ridiculous number that would probably cause riots, gas shortages and lots of rally's about immigrants, hungry children, 1%ers and wallstreet. This simply isnt a 550k mean type of place. At least not for many, many decades and by then San Diego will have a 1.5 mil mean.

If i moved to New York from Rome and told the new yorkers to stop complaining about how small their apartments are, because ours were even smaller, older and way more expensive, you can imagine how well that comparison would go down. It simply doesnt matter to them. Prices have gone up for locals. Incomes have not kept up. Thats the definition of a pinch.

[Upstateman92]

Yeah I disappeared from my
Post because I don't feel like reading 4 pages of ego and arguing about taxes and who makes more

[NP78]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

Well i moved here from elsewhere as well and when i got here it was a whole lot cheaper than it is now( can you imagine that?) So its the locals I empathize with. I find it interesting how people move here for the very reasons DFW locals are now complaining about (Living in their previous locations just got too expensive to justify) seem to lose sight of what that is like.

It means nothing to a person from CA to say "If the mean was 550k in DFW" but to someone that has lived here all their lives that is a completely ridiculous number that would probably cause riots, gas shortages and lots of rally's about immigrants, hungry children, 1%ers and wallstreet. This simply isnt a 550k mean type of place. At least not for many, many decades and by then San Diego will have a 1.5 mil mean.

If i moved to New York from Rome and told the new yorkers to stop complaining about how small their apartments are, because ours were even smaller, older and way more expensive, you can imagine how well that comparison would go down. It simply doesnt matter to them. Prices have gone up for locals. Incomes have not kept up. Thats the definition of a pinch.

That's not at all unique to DFW though. Property prices nationwide have outstripped income growth and that it even more true in heavily populated areas.

I am not saying it isn't an issue, just that it isn't an issue unique to DFW. It's not like there is some great mecca of affordable housing out there that also has amenities and most importantly jobs.

DFW real estate may be overvalued, but if it is, it is because real estate values in the US as a whole are overvalued.