Is shrinking lots size going to fix housing affordability? (Dallas: for sale, house prices)

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

Haven't lived in many big cities, have you?

As land gets more expensive, lots get smaller.

It used to be that lot sizes were largely driven by streetcar transit - thus the narrow deep lot that allowed one to walk more easily from the streetcar stop to the house. With the pretty much universal adoption of the private automobile after WW2, lots got wider and larger - until land prices started pushing it in the other direction. Each neighborhood and city is different.

As I pointed out above, in the city of Dallas, a "typical" city lot probably runs 7000-10,000 SF. This for neighborhoods platted from the 1920s through the 1980s.

I can't comment, nor do I care, about lot sizes in the exurbs from Plano on out.

At any rate, given the current prices of land in decent neighborhoods in central Dallas, taking a standard lot in a particular subdivision from 7500 per house to 7500 per duplex MIGHT help - except that those are going to be "luxury" duplexes, which cost a lot more and deliver a lot less than the standard houses they'd replace (all this ignores zoning, of course, because SFH homeowners are pretty much universally unhappy when you propose things that will drastically increase the nearby population of renters and neighborhood traffic and crowding - so they go down to the zoning board meetings and complain. Because those homeowners are taxpayers and because homeowners tend to vote a lot more than renters, especially when there's a measure that'll degrade their property values, city councils and zoning boards tend to pay attention.

Does Seattle DC, Ft. Worth in the US count as cities? Munich is a bit more expensive:>) Still do not care for rabbit or prairie dog warrens.

[TheOverdog]

Maybe I misunderstood, but are you saying that regulatory costs of $4/SF of lot size exceed land value over most of Dallas?

Yes, the median land value is $7 per sq ft, and for over half the zip codes in Dallas, regulatory cost is over half the land value. Preston Hollow is multiple zip codes - only 75229 is not included here. PH south and west? Yes. Yep, and if I'm remember zip codes correctly, into Richardson has the same issue, with stranded land value in 75080 and 75081 and points east.

[CMC_TX]

Originally Posted by ChristieP

Patio homes and townhomes are great for singles and older adults who don't need/want to maintain a yard. They stink for families with kids because there is nowhere for the kids to play safely without being in the street. Duplexes and multi-family properties tend to not age well; city planners will tell you that when most apartment complexes hit 20 years old, they start going downhill.

DFW is not NYC or Chicago. Not everyone wants public transit, and few people are willing to spend an hour on the bus/train riding to/from work each day. Our metro area is too spread out already to make public transit feasible outside of the 635/PGBT loop.

The new homes being built on the outer edges of DFW are mostly NOT "large lots." They are the smallish, standard-size lots where the house takes up most of the lot. The homes that are being built on larger lots in areas like Forney and Terrell are because the property does not have city water/sewer, and there is a .8 acre minimum size lot required for a septic system.

I would like to see true “luxury” patio homes / villa homes built or luxury townhomes. Not necessarily for families to your point, but with an aging population and increasing number of single person households, not everyone can afford to live in and maintain a large home, or afford to live in the “traditional” urban neighborhoods close-in.

It would be nice to have options for this type of housing other than CB Jeni trash, because I do think people would be willing to pay for better quality in a smaller footprint in many cases. I’ve seen this in other cities but not as much in the Dallas area in terms of good quality options being built.

On another note, some homebuilders such as DR Horton are heavily expanding and investing in their single family home “rental communities,” which makes sense for them as a company but will erode the middle class…people are already priced out of homes in DFW, and they anticipate a lot of the future home sales will turn to institutional investors due to disproportionate cost to own relative to current income.

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by CMC_TX

I would like to see true “luxury” patio homes / villa homes built or luxury townhomes. Not necessarily for families to your point, but with an aging population and increasing number of single person households, not everyone can afford to live in and maintain a large home, or afford to live in the “traditional” urban neighborhoods close-in.

It would be nice to have options for this type of housing other than CB Jeni trash, because I do think people would be willing to pay for better quality in a smaller footprint in many cases. I’ve seen this in other cities but not as much in the Dallas area in terms of good quality options being built.

On another note, some homebuilders such as DR Horton are heavily expanding and investing in their single family home “rental communities,” which makes sense for them as a company but will erode the middle class…people are already priced out of homes in DFW, and they anticipate a lot of the future home sales will turn to institutional investors due to disproportionate cost to own relative to current income.

Me too! These kinds of houses are no longer being built. Some builders advertise their 2600 square foot homes on 60x130 lots as "patio" homes for "downsizing," but that's delusional.

Another problem we have is that you might have a house that is 20-30 feet wide, but probably over half of that is dedicated to a kitchen island (or, rather, kitchen continent). Then you don't really have room for a table or couch. Will that trend ever die?

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by CMC_TX

I would like to see true “luxury” patio homes / villa homes built or luxury townhomes. Not necessarily for families to your point, but with an aging population and increasing number of single person households, not everyone can afford to live in and maintain a large home, or afford to live in the “traditional” urban neighborhoods close-in.

It would be nice to have options for this type of housing other than CB Jeni trash, because I do think people would be willing to pay for better quality in a smaller footprint in many cases. I’ve seen this in other cities but not as much in the Dallas area in terms of good quality options being built.

On another note, some homebuilders such as DR Horton are heavily expanding and investing in their single family home “rental communities,” which makes sense for them as a company but will erode the middle class…people are already priced out of homes in DFW, and they anticipate a lot of the future home sales will turn to institutional investors due to disproportionate cost to own relative to current income.

In some older residential areas a hard roadblock/big $$$ fix to increased density is hyperlocal sanitary sewage capacity, like per street and per neighborhood. In new/newer areas this kind of thing is much more easily dealt with and usually planned for in advance.

[tcualum]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

Me too! These kinds of houses are no longer being built. Some builders advertise their 2600 square foot homes on 60x130 lots as "patio" homes for "downsizing," but that's delusional.

Another problem we have is that you might have a house that is 20-30 feet wide, but probably over half of that is dedicated to a kitchen island (or, rather, kitchen continent). Then you don't really have room for a table or couch. Will that trend ever die?

Near my house, they're building a gated housing community that's exclusively for 55+. The HOA takes care of all of the exterior maintenance and landscaping. The homes start at 400k.

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by tcualum

Near my house, they're building a gated housing community that's exclusively for 55+. The HOA takes care of all of the exterior maintenance and landscaping. The homes start at 400k.

Most of those seem to be plopped up against major thoroughfares and highways. Perhaps they figure their residents are less likely to be able to hear. However, this seems to be the new trend for all neighborhoods now. I don't blame the developers; I blame the cities for such horrific zoning. Those thoroughfares should be reserved for commercial and/or multifamily.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

Me too! These kinds of houses are no longer being built. Some builders advertise their 2600 square foot homes on 60x130 lots as "patio" homes for "downsizing," but that's delusional.

Another problem we have is that you might have a house that is 20-30 feet wide, but probably over half of that is dedicated to a kitchen island (or, rather, kitchen continent). Then you don't really have room for a table or couch. Will that trend ever die?

You can design your floor plan and furnish according to your taste and need. Others do the same. Builders build what sells.

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by Threestep2

You can design your floor plan and furnish according to your taste and need. Others do the same. Builders build what sells.

Not quite.

1) If you buy a house in a new subdivision, you'll generally be selecting amongst stock floor plans of the builder that owns your chosen lot.

2) If you own a lot in an existing subdivision, you'll be conforming to zoning regulations. For example, I own a lot (with house) that's 60 x 125, with required front setback of 25', required side and rear setbacks of 5', and maximum coverage of 45%. I can't build a zero lot line house here if I wanted to.

so NO, unless you've got resources the ordinary house buyer doesn't have, you can't just design and build anything you want, wherever you want.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

Not quite.

1) If you buy a house in a new subdivision, you'll generally be selecting amongst stock floor plans of the builder that owns your chosen lot.

2) If you own a lot in an existing subdivision, you'll be conforming to zoning regulations. For example, I own a lot (with house) that's 60 x 125, with required front setback of 25', required side and rear setbacks of 5', and maximum coverage of 45%. I can't build a zero lot line house here if I wanted to.

so NO, unless you've got resources the ordinary house buyer doesn't have, you can't just design and build anything you want, wherever you want.

And what does this have to do with open floor plans? Nobody forces a buyer to pick a home in a cookie cutter subdivision or not modify to his/her needs.