Is shrinking lots size going to fix housing affordability? (Cooper: high crime, day care)

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by Threestep2

And what does this have to do with open floor plans? Nobody forces a buyer to pick a home in a cookie cutter subdivision or not modify to his/her needs.

No, I was not complaining about an open floor plan. I was complaining about the way they've chosen to do open floor plans. People buy them because it's all there is in a given size range, and they care more about getting "new" than getting a good floor plan.

And unless you want a big yard with lots of maintenance, you are not going to get a custom build. The idea is getting a sensible floor plan on a small lot in a more urban/suburban area, and that's not possible.

[TeamLynn]

If we were really green and cared about the environment, global warming and climate change, we should limit construction size. We've seen huge average home size increases. Post WWII homes were probably around 800-1100sqft. I'll bet today average home size is 2500sqft or more. Plenty of homes get built at 4000-5000sqft. Chances are very few people actually need that much space.

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by Threestep2

And what does this have to do with open floor plans? Nobody forces a buyer to pick a home in a cookie cutter subdivision or not modify to his/her needs.

Well, while it's technically true that no PERSON forces a buyer to choose a house in a particular location, REALITY often does. The buyer who has a limited budget (and who doesn't?), plus wants certain minimum things about length of commute, nearby schools, safety, and other such matters (which are not trivial), in a metro area of 7 million people extending over an area as large as the state of Connecticut, will find only a few places where houses that meet his requirements are available. Add to that the fact that the majority of buyers cannot wait for years to find that one needle in a haystack, and a given buyer may only find five or six houses for sale that meet his criteria more or less.

Now when you jumped in we were discussing zero-lot-line houses, and certainly it simply is NOT possible to build such a house in a subdivision that isn't platted and zoned for it. If you're talking about open floor plans, well, yes, in theory a person could buy a house with a floor plan they don't like and then spend 30-70% of the purchase price to completely overhaul the floor plan to their liking - but see above; most people who live in the actual world have a limited budget, limited time, and they just need to get a house bought, move in, and get on with their lives. If the kind of house you desire isn't available in the areas you are willing to live, you've got to settle for something you'd rather not.

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

No, I was not complaining about an open floor plan. I was complaining about the way they've chosen to do open floor plans. People buy them because it's all there is in a given size range, and they care more about getting "new" than getting a good floor plan.

And unless you want a big yard with lots of maintenance, you are not going to get a custom build. The idea is getting a sensible floor plan on a small lot in a more urban/suburban area, and that's not possible.

Well, in Threestep's world where all of us have infinite funds, time, and motivation, one could in theory: 1)
wait as many years as it takes, to buy an existing house in a small-lot subdivision (these do exist in Dallas, but there aren't huge numbers of them); 2) tear it down; 3) rebuild it with exactly the desired floor plan - but in the real world where people have limits on their housing budgets, limited time, need a place to live NOW not three years in the future, and don't have the energy to take on such a project - well, in such a real world, you settle for what you can get, and you're allowed to wish for the market to change so that what you want again becomes readily available.

I'll tell you what'll do it - the price of oil.

I remember all too well the mid 70s after the first Arab oil shock, and then after the second one - for the first time I guess since the Great Depression, economy of operation became a value that manufacturers and builders started serving. Small, energy-efficient (for the times) houses were suddenly built in reasonable numbers. But then the price of oil went down, and then once the Great Inflation subsided, the absurd interest-rate policy of the last 20 years has driven house prices and sizes to unprecedented levels of ridiculousness.

Most of the zero-lot-line developments I know of in northern Dallas County date from the early 80s to the early 90s - energy efficiency and the cost of money driving a much more modest model of development. I lived in one of these houses for several years and I was surprised how well it met many of my needs.

There are a number of newish zero-lot-line and townhouse developments in the area between Mockingbird Lane and downtown that would be worth looking into if one's interested in this kind of setup. Here, what'll be driving the design is the cost of the land they're sitting on.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

No, I was not complaining about an open floor plan. I was complaining about the way they've chosen to do open floor plans. People buy them because it's all there is in a given size range, and they care more about getting "new" than getting a good floor plan.

And unless you want a big yard with lots of maintenance, you are not going to get a custom build. The idea is getting a sensible floor plan on a small lot in a more urban/suburban area, and that's not possible.

Your idea of sensible floor plan an someone else's idea of it seems to be different. How many homes have you bought over the last 20 years?

[tcualum]

We bought a lot with the intent of building a multigenerational home. We knew my mother-in-law would be living full-time with us at some point so we planned to build an efficiency apartment styled as a cabana for resale on the lot. We hired an architect and a builder. We told our architect about our plan and he told us that the suburb we were building in didn't allow such buildings. We ended up having to get creative to get approval. For example, the apartment had to be physically attached to the house instead of being attached by a breezeway and we couldn't install a cooktop because it would be considered a kitchen. We ended up selling the lot and buying an existing home that had a kitchen that would accommodate 2 cooks cooking separate meals. My mother-in-law is a vegetarian for religious reasons and we like meat.

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by Threestep2

Your idea of sensible floor plan an someone else's idea of it seems to be different. How many homes have you bought over the last 20 years?

Do you think it's sensible to take have the width of a 20- to 30-ft wide house, and fill over half of it with a giant slab of granite or quartz? What little space there is is not usable.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

Do you think it's sensible to take have the width of a 20- to 30-ft wide house, and fill over half of it with a giant slab of granite or quartz? What little space there is is not usable.

Again - it is something you do not care for. You can do something about it.

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by Threestep2

Again - it is something you do not care for. You can do something about it.

At what cost?

I don't care for open floor plans. I have looked at MANY open floor plan houses. For most of them, adding walls in the places that would be a priority for me would result in things like long skinny dark rooms with one window at the end, walls that end in the middle of a window. and any number of other things.

In general, trying to convert an open-plan house into something else isn't going to work.

Now of course you could buy a house, tear it halfway down or fully down, and rebuild essentially from scratch. Yes, so now after you pay an extra 50+% of the purchase to reconstruct it, architect fees, etc., etc., and wait a year for it to be done, maybe you have "done something about it" but you've spent vast amounts of money and time and effort that will never be recovered.

So this "option" you keep promoting isn't an option, not really, not for people who work for a living and have finite resources.

Of course, one could simply buy some land out around Gainesville and build exactly the house they want. But the person who works in the Oak Cliiff VA will find that's not practical. And maybe they WANT to be in a particular school district.

You ignore that people have limited resources - of money, time, etc.

I mean, I don't like certain aspects of my car, either. These are things that every car currently on the market shares.

Yes, in theory I could buy an auto manufacturer and in my new position as sole owner, direct the engineering staff to design exactly what I want. But in the actual real world of linear time and three dimensional space, that's not practical.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

At what cost?

I don't care for open floor plans. I have looked at MANY open floor plan houses. For most of them, adding walls in the places that would be a priority for me would result in things like long skinny dark rooms with one window at the end, walls that end in the middle of a window. and any number of other things.

In general, trying to convert an open-plan house into something else isn't going to work.

Now of course you could buy a house, tear it halfway down or fully down, and rebuild essentially from scratch. Yes, so now after you pay an extra 50+% of the purchase to reconstruct it, architect fees, etc., etc., and wait a year for it to be done, maybe you have "done something about it" but you've spent vast amounts of money and time and effort that will never be recovered.

So this "option" you keep promoting isn't an option, not really, not for people who work for a living and have finite resources.

Of course, one could simply buy some land out around Gainesville and build exactly the house they want. But the person who works in the Oak Cliiff VA will find that's not practical. And maybe they WANT to be in a particular school district.

You ignore that people have limited resources - of money, time, etc.

I mean, I don't like certain aspects of my car, either. These are things that every car currently on the market shares.

Yes, in theory I could buy an auto manufacturer and in my new position as sole owner, direct the engineering staff to design exactly what I want. But in the actual real world of linear time and three dimensional space, that's not practical.

What you do not like about your car you do not have to accept. Mine uses regular, has a cigarette lighter, manual windows and nothing to track it by. It does not talk, whistle or complain. What does every car on the market currently share?