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Those of you who moved from NY or Long Island, how would you compare Dallas financially? What about the highways and driving etc? Thanks!
I have a good friend living in NYC right now who has lived in DFW. She have been living overseas but moved back the states for her job. She's been back over a year now and hopes to relocate back to DFW within 3 years as she's found the COL in NYC just too prohibitive and his is someone making over $175K/year.
In what way do you mean compare it 'financially'? Do you mean cost of living? That's going to vary a lot by how you want to live. NYC is obviously more expensive for MOST people who would be living in Dallas compared to living in NYC, largely because of a typical lower overall tax burden in TX and cost of comparable housing. Yes, But there are lots of situations to consider.
Driving is also hard to compare. Driving kind of sucks in NYC, but you just about NEVER have to do it. Between living there and also visiting 3-4x a year since, I have only ever driven when I needed to take a care to drive somewhere in upstate NY to visit relatives. Outside of that, 80% of the time just subway and buses and 20% taxi/ride-share. Driving in Dallas sucks as well, but for the majority of DFW, people HAVE to drive. So I'd actually give NYC a significant edge in terms of overall transportation. I spent my first 3 years here relying almost entirely on biking/train/uber; but in order to do that I had to live in a very specific radius to specific train lines and work within a specific radius of train lines too. Very limited.
Outside of that, comparisons are going to be very personal. I like NYC better in nearly every way than Dallas for my own lifestyle - but before people take that the wrong way, I also have found enough to enjoy in Dallas as well that I am OK living here and appreciate the tax breaks and being near my wife's family.
I would suggest that you bring some more specific questions here and I, and other posters, will likely be able to provide you much higher quality answers based around what you really want to know.
Never have to drive in NYC but yet there's wall-to-wall traffic and its not all delivery trucks. Whenever I'm there, I always chuckle when I see passenger vehicles with big old bumper shields on their backs to guard against rear-end damage.
Never have to drive in NYC but yet there's wall-to-wall traffic and its not all delivery trucks. Whenever I'm there, I always chuckle when I see passenger vehicles with big old bumper shields on their backs to guard against rear-end damage.
I'm not sure what you mean. People can CHOOSE to drive for various reasons. An there are enough people in NYC, that even those who choose to will create traffic. But you certainly don't have to. NYC has, by far, the lowest car per capita of any city in the US.
I also disagree that it's wall-to-wall traffic. In the most dense parts of Manhattan below 59th? Sure. Lots of traffic. But I'd disagree about wall to wall traffic in many other parts of the city. A quick skim of google street view will prove this through an unbiased lens.
Maybe I misinterpreted your post. But if you're disagreeing that many/most people don't have to drive in NYC, that's not an argument I'm even willing to take-on because it's just not rooted in reality, whether someone likes NYC or not.
Last edited by Sunbather; 03-11-2024 at 12:56 PM..
Thanks, New Yorkers, and your friends from California, for my ever-increasing property taxes and the fact that I have to move 100 miles out of the city to afford the house I could have bought just down the street five years ago.
I'll be interested to see if the behavior pattern of the Michigan/Ohio invasion of the mid 80s repeats too: as we said, "they never stop complaining, but they never leave, either."
Thanks, New Yorkers, and your friends from California, for my ever-increasing property taxes and the fact that I have to move 100 miles out of the city to afford the house I could have bought just down the street five years ago.
I'll be interested to see if the behavior pattern of the Michigan/Ohio invasion of the mid 80s repeats too: as we said, "they never stop complaining, but they never leave, either."
Of the people who moved into Texas over the last 4 years (since 2020, so using 4 calendar years even though it's not 4 full years), 35-45% moved here from another country, depending on what census or data you look at.
Among the ~60% that is left over, which makes up people moving to Texas from all 50 states, NYC only made up 4% of the people who moved from one US state to TX.
And among that specific subset of 4% of people who did move from New York City to Texas, Dallas was 3rd behind Houston and Austin in terms of where they landed.
From that fractional, specific group, we will assume that the overall stat from NYC applies: 30% or less were property owners in NYC and 70% were renters.
It doesn't take long to realize that the fictionalized idea of individual people from NYC moving to Dallas, selling a property in NYC, and then purchasing here is a statistical insignificance in terms of impacting home ownership or driving up the cost of Dallas real estate. There is almost no thread to be followed that supports that.
Now, if you want to talk about California, there are at least some driving figures to support some of that.
Last edited by Sunbather; 03-11-2024 at 01:38 PM..
Of the people who moved into Texas over the last 4 years (since 2020, so using 4 calendar years even though it's not 4 full years), 35-45% moved here from another country, depending on what census or data you look at.
Among the ~60% that is left over, which makes up people moving to Texas from all 50 states, NYC only made up 4% of the people who moved from one US state to TX.
And among that specific subset of 4% of people who did move from New York City to Texas, Dallas was 3rd behind Houston and Austin in terms of where they landed.
From that fractional, specific group, we will assume that the overall stat from NYC applies: 30% or less were property owners in NYC and 70% were renters.
It doesn't take long to realize that the fictionalized idea of individual people from NYC moving to Dallas, selling a property in NYC, and then purchasing here is a statistical insignificance in terms of impacting home ownership or driving up the cost of Dallas real estate. There is almost no thread to be followed that supports that.
Now, if you want to talk about California, there are at least some driving figures to support some of that.
Well the data you're citing are made up of the entire population of those moving to Texas.
A more relevant question to my concern would be: "Of house sales in the period 2020-2024 (so far), where the selling price was over $350,000, what percentage of sales went to out-of-staters, and which states?" Another one might be "for houses in Dallas whose selling price in the period 2020-2024 was more than 50% higher than their market value as of 2010, how many went to out-of-staters, and which states?"
Most of central Dallas houses would fall into that category. I can tell you that I see vast numbers of California and a fair number of New York plates in the nicer neighborhoods of Dallas.
Well the data you're citing are made up of the entire population of those moving to Texas.
A more relevant question to my concern would be: "Of house sales in the period 2020-2024 (so far), where the selling price was over $350,000, what percentage of sales went to out-of-staters, and which states?" Another one might be "for houses in Dallas whose selling price in the period 2020-2024 was more than 50% higher than their market value as of 2010, how many went to out-of-staters, and which states?"
Most of central Dallas houses would fall into that category. I can tell you that I see vast numbers of California and a fair number of New York plates in the nicer neighborhoods of Dallas.
It's hard to fight anecdotes, which is why I gave data. I likely won't be able to convince you of something you're feeling based on anecdotes of license plates etc.
But, in 2020 and 2021 for example, ~13.5k people from NYC moved to Texas (as a whole state). Dallas received less than Austin and Houston. Let's simplify and assume that all NYC transplants moved to Dallas, Austin, and Houston. And let's assume it was an even 1/3 split (which it was not, but this falls in your favor). So we'll say ~4,500 people from NYC moved to DFW in 2021. A year in which 112,000 homes sold in the DFW area.
Now, let's assume that EVERYONE moving from NYC was an individual (no spouses, no kids - not realistic). And let's assume every one of those people bought a house. (Also not realistic. Anecdotally, of the two families and one personal friend who moved to DFW and Austin over the pandemic, one of them owns and 2 of them rent).
All that being assumed, they could still only command demand for 4% of the housing market in the DFW area.
Realistically, the people moving here have a similar ~2.5 persons per household based on stats for both NYC and DFW. This pushes the above numbers down to ~1.8% of the houses purchased in a given comparison year would fit your criteria (assuming 100% of households moving from NYC bought in DFW).
Last edited by Sunbather; 03-11-2024 at 03:09 PM..
It's hard to fight anecdotes, which is why I gave data. I likely won't be able to convince you of something you're feeling based on anecdotes of license plates etc.
But, in 2020 and 2021 for example, ~13.5k people from NYC moved to Texas (as a whole state). Dallas received less than Austin and Houston. Let's simplify and assume that all NYC transplants moved to Dallas, Austin, and Houston. And let's assume it was an even 1/3 split (which it was not, but this falls in your favor). So we'll say ~4,500 people from NYC moved to DFW in 2021. A year in which 112,000 homes sold in the DFW area.
Now, let's assume that EVERYONE moving from NYC was an individual (no spouses, no kids - not realistic). And let's assume every one of those people bought a house. (Also not realistic. Anecdotally, of the two families and one personal friend who moved to DFW and Austin over the pandemic, one of them owns and 2 of them rent).
All that being assumed, they could still only command demand for 4% of the housing market in the DFW area.
Realistically, the people moving here have a similar ~2.5 persons per household based on stats for both NYC and DFW. This pushes the same state down to ~1.8% of the houses purchased in a given comparison year would fit your criteria.
Fine, but of those 112,000 houses plenty of them were in Balch Springs or Celina or Forney. I looked and it looks like the median house sales price in Dallas was around $350k in 2021. I just don't think people from the super-high cost of living places like San Fran, Seattle, New York, LA are settling in Pleasant Grove - they're coming into North Dallas. That's my point - the invasion from the coasts isn't affecting the whole metro area evenly.
Fine, but of those 112,000 houses plenty of them were in Balch Springs or Celina or Forney. I looked and it looks like the median house sales price in Dallas was around $350k in 2021. I just don't think people from the super-high cost of living places like San Fran, Seattle, New York, LA are settling in Pleasant Grove - they're coming into North Dallas. That's my point - the invasion from the coasts isn't affecting the whole metro area evenly.
I would agree with you, but to that point, the type of transplant/financial status is also not uniform. And the way that your argument works is based on the fact that most all of the NYC transplants are wealthy, selling properties in NYC, and coming here flush with cash. When, in fact, many of them are not and were trying to get into a metro where they could finally get their head above water financially.
Case in point, while I don't love using anecdotes, I'll refer to the 2 families and one single friend who moved to DFW and Austin over the pandemic. One couple with 1 kid, one couple with 2 kids, and one single 30something. NONE of those 3 owned in NYC - all rented. Thus, none of them were not benefitting from selling some $2M property in NYC and then buying cash here. One family bought in Austin, the other family and the single friend have been renting here. The family here is finally looking to buy.
On the flip side, we knew many friends who had lived in Dallas for many years who bought during that same time frame and offered over market value to get their prices. It's self-fulfilling. If these families who already lived in DFW were also doing the same thing and buying over (or well over) asking, can you really blame the 1.8% of families from NYC moving here (probably half of whom weren't out here buying houses cash and driving up the market) more than any other family for doing the same thing?
The argument is a bit of house of cards fueled by bias that falls apart quickly. Besides, if all of the New Yorkers are living in a couple specific areas are driving up the prices..who is driving up the prices in all the other neighborhoods?
When you step back and look at the bigger picture, you'll see that housing absolutely skyrocketed here over the last several years across many kinds of areas. Dallas proper, various burbs, various types of neighborhoods and housing styles. Areas where locals live, areas where international transplants live, etc. No doubt about that. It becomes clear that the issue at hand is SIGNIFICANTLY larger than unfairly placing blame on "new yorkers".
Last edited by Sunbather; 03-11-2024 at 04:16 PM..
Never have to drive in NYC but yet there's wall-to-wall traffic and its not all delivery trucks. Whenever I'm there, I always chuckle when I see passenger vehicles with big old bumper shields on their backs to guard against rear-end damage.
What are you talking about?
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