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Oak Cliff was recommend to me as a place to move to in the Dallas area, because it's supposed to be an arts area and affordable for someone with my income. I was informed that the arts district is about 2 1/2 blocks of mostly closed out store fronts.
Anyone have feedback for this?
I live in another state and, even though he has asked me to move to the Dallas area closer to family, it's entirely possible my brother would undermine any move I try to make. (I know, "family.") So, other people's input is appreciated.
Your brother obviously doesn't know much about Oak Cliff given his response. Some people have a personal bias towards Oak Cliff because they think that their white bread, generic 'hoods offer the only acceptable way to live. Their thought process is too rigid to be open to a place as eclectic as Oak Cliff. Fortunately for Oak Cliff, those narrow minded types don't tend to live there. It's got some really cool areas and some really trashy areas. It's got filthy rich and dirt poor. It's essentially a city within a city. You really have to see it for yourself. Check out this website for some info on specific neighborhoods: www.ooccl.org. You should definitely investigate the OC if only just to PO your brother.
Lol, it definately would get his goat. Thanks for the link.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas native
Your brother obviously doesn't know much about Oak Cliff given his response. Some people have a personal bias towards Oak Cliff because they think that their white bread, generic 'hoods offer the only acceptable way to live. Their thought process is too rigid to be open to a place as eclectic as Oak Cliff. Fortunately for Oak Cliff, those narrow minded types don't tend to live there. It's got some really cool areas and some really trashy areas. It's got filthy rich and dirt poor. It's essentially a city within a city. You really have to see it for yourself. Check out this website for some info on specific neighborhoods: www.ooccl.org. You should definitely investigate the OC if only just to PO your brother.
I have to agree with you BillDFW. I'm not from OC but I have a lot of family and friends who are....my grandparents live right across the street from Kimball High School. I always enjoy going out there to visit. And I'm out there at least a handful of times per month. But it is what it is so outsiders will either love it or hate it. I personally LOVE IT but even still I would only consider living in the Bishop/Kessler area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billdfw
Your brother is correct. Oak Cliff in general is very high crime and rundown, not to mention is generally filthy. Not a place to be, espescially if you are new to the area.
The Bishop Arts District is quite nice, but it is only about 2-3 blocks long and is surrounded by rundown buildings and homes.
The nothernmost part of Oak Cliff near I-30 is very nice and has some million dollar homes, but it is surrounded on all sides by crime and filth.
The general rule is to stay north I-30 as it applies to the City of Dallas because south of I-30 is rundown, filthy, and high crime, not to mention a majority of parolees and sex offenders live in that area.
Dallas police identify officer killed after being shot in the face 10:25 PM CT | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/010709dnmetofficershot.45d6022c.html - broken link)
It's amazing how hysterical some people can get when they hear those two little words: Oak Cliff.
Come see the area for yourself and, in addition to the aforementioned Kessler Park, check out less pricey areas such as Kidd Springs, Stevens Park, Kings Highway, Ravinia Heights, Elmwood and Mountain Creek. You can read about some of what's going on locally in such publications as Cliff Dweller Magazine :: The New Magazine For The New Oak Cliff (http://www.cliffdwellermagazine.com - broken link) (very positive, little bad news) and Oak Cliff People (they have a police blotter) News | Oak Cliff (http://www.peoplenewspapers.com/ME2/Audiences/dirsect.asp?sid=19868E2702EC432B948C42250588F253&n m=News&AudID=3E017068694948C3BE75FD51480D8A7D - broken link)
Physically, Oak Cliff is one of the most distinctive areas in Dallas. There are actual hills and old-growth trees. And, remember, Oak Cliff, in its broadest sense, covers some 100 sq. miles so something bad going on in one section won't necessarily affect you. If you have kids and insist on sending them to public schools or you need to live right next to bright, shiny, chain retail, I wouldn't recommed the OC. But if those aren't two of your requirements, don't let the haters deter you from having a look around.
Dallas police identify officer killed after being shot in the face 10:25 PM CT | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/010709dnmetofficershot.45d6022c.html - broken link)
This is in that terrible area off Ledbetter. And like I said before, miles from you'd be looking. It's far east and far south from Bishop Arts and all the great Oak Cliff neighborhoods.
Dallas police identify officer killed after being shot in the face 10:25 PM CT | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/010709dnmetofficershot.45d6022c.html - broken link)
That's a very unfortunate thing that happened, however it has nothing to do with what is commonly referred to as "N. Oak Cliff". In fact, the 4900 block of Wadsworth where this shooting happened is not even in Oak Cliff. There is a lot of misconception because the boundaries of Oak Cliff have been ill-defined in the public mind. Some people consider it everything in SW Dallas. Some people consider it everything south of I-30. IMHO it should be defined by its original boundaries when it was its own city just for the sake of CLARITY. The original city of Oak Cliff was only about 2 or 3 square miles running roughly from Winnetka Hts. on the west to the area around what is now the Dallas Zoo on the east.
After Oak Cliff became a part of Dallas in 1903, there were many new developments that surrounded it or were very near it (Kessler Park, Stevens Park, Wynnewood North, Hampton Hills are examples). Those areas were never a part of the original city of Oak Cliff because they were developed decades after Oak Cliff joined Dallas. They were and still are very nice DALLAS neighborhoods. However, they are commonly referred to as "N. Oak Cliff" or "Old Oak Cliff" by organizations such as the Old Oak Cliff Conservation League (www.ooccl.org), the Oak Cliff Chamber of Commerce and the Dallas Morning News. Those are catch-all terms for a collection of neighborhoods in that part of SW Dallas. Since many of these places have always been desirable or have recently seen renewed interest by renovators and/or developers, it is not inherently bad strategy from a public relations standpoint that they are put under the "N. Oak Cliff" umbrella. But, it is not technically accurate.
There are negative consequences resulting from this strategy of expanding and sectoring off "Oak Cliff". Loosely defining the boundaries in the minds of the public has led to "Oak Cliff" being associated with other much more distant areas that are blighted and that experience high crime. That is the case with the 4900 block of Wadsworth which is located near the intersection of I-45 @ E. Ledbetter deep in SE Dallas. It would be illogical and arbitrary to infer that one should avoid visiting or living in Kessler Park or many other parts of "N. Oak Cliff" because of something that happened 11 miles away in what many think of as "E. Oak Cliff" or "S. Oak Cliff". Why not say the same thing about Highland Park which is also 11 miles from the crime scene?
Collectively referring to any group of neighborhoods in the southern half of the city of Dallas as "Oak Cliff" (even if it is prefaced with "North, South, East or West") does a disservice to the neighborhoods contained within the boundaries of the original Oak Cliff. In fact it is a disservice to ALL of the southern sector. It has the power to damage the image of lots of very desirable areas when, as in this case, the reference is in the context of reporting a murder, rape, armed robbery or whatever. It would be nice if the DMN would report this as SE Dallas instead of E. Oak Cliff, but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.
I'm not comparing Preston Hollow to the original City of Oak Cliff in any way, but the following analogy illustrates what I am trying to convey because there is a parallel situation. Ritzy Preston Hollow used to be its own city until it became a part of Dallas in 1945. It is located in the northern half of the city of Dallas. What if everything in Dallas north of I-30 through years of misinformation and lazy reporting practices was commonly referred to as Preston Hollow? Such a huge area would include such undesirable places as Harry Hines Blvd., the strip club district along NW Highway, the warehouse districts along I-35, the Fair Oaks/Greenville Ave. area and more. Now imagine that the Dallas Morning News reported stories about hookers on Harry Hines, neighbors trying to get rid of strip clubs around Bachman Lake, a murder in Fair Oaks or a drug deal in NW Dallas. Now imagine that they reported all of this as happening in Preston Hollow. Wouldn't that be unfortunate for Preston Hollow? Wouldn't it have a far different image today if that were the case? That's what happened to Oak Cliff in relation to the southern half of Dallas.
That's a very unfortunate thing that happened, however it has nothing to do with what is commonly referred to as "N. Oak Cliff". In fact, the 4900 block of Wadsworth where this shooting happened is not even in Oak Cliff. There is a lot of misconception because the boundaries of Oak Cliff have been ill-defined in the public mind. Some people consider it everything in SW Dallas. Some people consider it everything south of I-30. IMHO it should be defined by its original boundaries when it was its own city just for the sake of CLARITY. The original city of Oak Cliff was only about 2 or 3 square miles running roughly from Winnetka Hts. on the west to the area around what is now the Dallas Zoo on the east.
After Oak Cliff became a part of Dallas in 1903, there were many new developments that surrounded it or were very near it (Kessler Park, Stevens Park, Wynnewood North, Hampton Hills are examples). Those areas were never a part of the original city of Oak Cliff because they were developed decades after Oak Cliff joined Dallas. They were and still are very nice DALLAS neighborhoods. However, they are commonly referred to as "N. Oak Cliff" or "Old Oak Cliff" by organizations such as the Old Oak Cliff Conservation League (www.ooccl.org), the Oak Cliff Chamber of Commerce and the Dallas Morning News. Those are catch-all terms for a collection of neighborhoods in that part of SW Dallas. Since many of these places have always been desirable or have recently seen renewed interest by renovators and/or developers, it is not inherently bad strategy from a public relations standpoint that they are put under the "N. Oak Cliff" umbrella. But, it is not technically accurate.
There are negative consequences resulting from this strategy of expanding and sectoring off "Oak Cliff". Loosely defining the boundaries in the minds of the public has led to "Oak Cliff" being associated with other much more distant areas that are blighted and that experience high crime. That is the case with the 4900 block of Wadsworth which is located near the intersection of I-45 @ E. Ledbetter deep in SE Dallas. It would be illogical and arbitrary to infer that one should avoid visiting or living in Kessler Park or many other parts of "N. Oak Cliff" because of something that happened 11 miles away in what many think of as "E. Oak Cliff" or "S. Oak Cliff". Why not say the same thing about Highland Park which is also 11 miles from the crime scene?
Collectively referring to any group of neighborhoods in the southern half of the city of Dallas as "Oak Cliff" (even if it is prefaced with "North, South, East or West") does a disservice to the neighborhoods contained within the boundaries of the original Oak Cliff. In fact it is a disservice to ALL of the southern sector. It has the power to damage the image of lots of very desirable areas when, as in this case, the reference is in the context of reporting a murder, rape, armed robbery or whatever. It would be nice if the DMN would report this as SE Dallas instead of E. Oak Cliff, but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.
I'm not comparing Preston Hollow to the original City of Oak Cliff in any way, but the following analogy illustrates what I am trying to convey because there is a parallel situation. Ritzy Preston Hollow used to be its own city until it became a part of Dallas in 1945. It is located in the northern half of the city of Dallas. What if everything in Dallas north of I-30 through years of misinformation and lazy reporting practices was commonly referred to as Preston Hollow? Such a huge area would include such undesirable places as Harry Hines Blvd., the strip club district along NW Highway, the warehouse districts along I-35, the Fair Oaks/Greenville Ave. area and more. Now imagine that the Dallas Morning News reported stories about hookers on Harry Hines, neighbors trying to get rid of strip clubs around Bachman Lake, a murder in Fair Oaks or a drug deal in NW Dallas. Now imagine that they reported all of this as happening in Preston Hollow. Wouldn't that be unfortunate for Preston Hollow? Wouldn't it have a far different image today if that were the case? That's what happened to Oak Cliff in relation to the southern half of Dallas.
The general boundaries of Oak Cliff according to Wikipedia are I-30, I-35, Cockrel Hill Rd, and Camp Wisdom Rd. These are the general boundaries that I think of as well. In fact, Oak Cliff Country club is miles south of I-30, down by Camp Wisdom.
I agree with you that the article has it wrong. The crime occured in Southern Dallas, not Oak Cliff. But it doesn't matter, because they are both run-down, filthy, crime infested dumps. Just because there are some very small, limited areas of Oak Cliff that are nice (e.g. the northermost part), does not excuse or make up for the fact that the rest of it should be avoided. Also, the nice parts are surrounded by this filthy crime infested dump on all sides, so it is ridiculous and insane to recommend this area to anyone.
The general boundaries of Oak Cliff according to Wikipedia are I-30, I-35, Cockrel Hill Rd, and Camp Wisdom Rd. These are the general boundaries that I think of as well. In fact, Oak Cliff Country club is miles south of I-30, down by Camp Wisdom.
I agree with you that the article has it wrong. The crime occured in Southern Dallas, not Oak Cliff. But it doesn't matter, because they are both run-down, filthy, crime infested dumps. Just because there are some very small, limited areas of Oak Cliff that are nice (e.g. the northermost part), does not excuse or make up for the fact that the rest of it should be avoided. Also, the nice parts are surrounded by this filthy crime infested dump on all sides, so it is ridiculous and insane to recommend this area to anyone.
You just proved my point. There has been so much incorrect information spread around over the years that even Wikipedia defines Oak Cliff as being roughly the SW quadrant of Dallas. But, their definition is still way too broad. A small part of the original OC is slightly east of I-35 and none of the original OC went much below 12th St.
At least it appears that you agree that SE Dallas is NOT part of Oak Cliff. Progress. Alas, just as I thought you might possess the actual capacity to speak with some objectivity on this subject you had to go and ruin it all with your biased, misinformed and vindictive diatribe about the entire SW quadrant.
That's a very unfortunate thing that happened, however it has nothing to do with what is commonly referred to as "N. Oak Cliff". In fact, the 4900 block of Wadsworth where this shooting happened is not even in Oak Cliff. There is a lot of misconception because the boundaries of Oak Cliff have been ill-defined in the public mind. Some people consider it everything in SW Dallas. Some people consider it everything south of I-30. IMHO it should be defined by its original boundaries when it was its own city just for the sake of CLARITY. The original city of Oak Cliff was only about 2 or 3 square miles running roughly from Winnetka Hts. on the west to the area around what is now the Dallas Zoo on the east.
After Oak Cliff became a part of Dallas in 1903, there were many new developments that surrounded it or were very near it (Kessler Park, Stevens Park, Wynnewood North, Hampton Hills are examples). Those areas were never a part of the original city of Oak Cliff because they were developed decades after Oak Cliff joined Dallas. They were and still are very nice DALLAS neighborhoods. However, they are commonly referred to as "N. Oak Cliff" or "Old Oak Cliff" by organizations such as the Old Oak Cliff Conservation League (www.ooccl.org), the Oak Cliff Chamber of Commerce and the Dallas Morning News. Those are catch-all terms for a collection of neighborhoods in that part of SW Dallas. Since many of these places have always been desirable or have recently seen renewed interest by renovators and/or developers, it is not inherently bad strategy from a public relations standpoint that they are put under the "N. Oak Cliff" umbrella. But, it is not technically accurate.
There are negative consequences resulting from this strategy of expanding and sectoring off "Oak Cliff". Loosely defining the boundaries in the minds of the public has led to "Oak Cliff" being associated with other much more distant areas that are blighted and that experience high crime. That is the case with the 4900 block of Wadsworth which is located near the intersection of I-45 @ E. Ledbetter deep in SE Dallas. It would be illogical and arbitrary to infer that one should avoid visiting or living in Kessler Park or many other parts of "N. Oak Cliff" because of something that happened 11 miles away in what many think of as "E. Oak Cliff" or "S. Oak Cliff". Why not say the same thing about Highland Park which is also 11 miles from the crime scene?
Collectively referring to any group of neighborhoods in the southern half of the city of Dallas as "Oak Cliff" (even if it is prefaced with "North, South, East or West") does a disservice to the neighborhoods contained within the boundaries of the original Oak Cliff. In fact it is a disservice to ALL of the southern sector. It has the power to damage the image of lots of very desirable areas when, as in this case, the reference is in the context of reporting a murder, rape, armed robbery or whatever. It would be nice if the DMN would report this as SE Dallas instead of E. Oak Cliff, but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.
I'm not comparing Preston Hollow to the original City of Oak Cliff in any way, but the following analogy illustrates what I am trying to convey because there is a parallel situation. Ritzy Preston Hollow used to be its own city until it became a part of Dallas in 1945. It is located in the northern half of the city of Dallas. What if everything in Dallas north of I-30 through years of misinformation and lazy reporting practices was commonly referred to as Preston Hollow? Such a huge area would include such undesirable places as Harry Hines Blvd., the strip club district along NW Highway, the warehouse districts along I-35, the Fair Oaks/Greenville Ave. area and more. Now imagine that the Dallas Morning News reported stories about hookers on Harry Hines, neighbors trying to get rid of strip clubs around Bachman Lake, a murder in Fair Oaks or a drug deal in NW Dallas. Now imagine that they reported all of this as happening in Preston Hollow. Wouldn't that be unfortunate for Preston Hollow? Wouldn't it have a far different image today if that were the case? That's what happened to Oak Cliff in relation to the southern half of Dallas.
Blah, blah, blah. Live there or anywhere in the region if you want to, the sane will stay away and let the rodents hopefully kill themselves off. Shalom
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. Alas, just as I thought you might possess the actual capacity to speak with some objectivity on this subject you had to go and ruin it all with your biased, misinformed and vindictive diatribe about the entire SW quadrant
.
