Dayton Ohio: Does it still suck there? (Toledo, Englewood: manufacturing, food)

[ohio_peasant]

Wow – this thread has been running for over 5 years!

I moved to Dayton nearly 20 years ago, for a job opportunity. I then left for ~5 years for grad school (in Los Angeles, thus echoing Sweatboa_22’s comments in post #151), then returned, and bought a house in a rural locale south-east of Dayton, where I’ve been ever since. I remain wedded to Dayton through a curious inversion of the normal economic calculus: here I have a great job, a job almost impossible to duplicate anywhere else, either in terms of salary or professional satisfaction. Though my opinion of the region is not altogether positive, I’ll likely remain here for career-reasons until I retire or secure a favorable transfer.

Tightline (post #185) made the prescient observation, expanded by Ohioan58 in post #188, that Dayton is stuck in a winless mediocrity, too small to anchor itself as a thriving city, yet too large to become a niche small town. This is compounded by a kind of stubborn pride in Dayton’s early-mid 20th century greatness, like that of an impoverished aristocrat who clings to his title but has had to dismiss all of his servants.

Recently I visited the Engineers’ Club in downtown Dayton, taking a tour hosted by an affable older gentleman. The parade of inventions and technological developments associated with Dayton is indeed good cause for pride, but something happened circa 1950, something causing the city and the region to cede its leadership and to begin an inexorable decline into obscurity. The tour guide was unable to point out any notable inventions within living memory. It was as if a meteor struck the city upon the conclusion of WWII, rendering extinct the febrile bustle of innovation.

While I don’t believe that this city or this region are necessarily doomed, that decline is inevitable and can only accelerate, I do worry that in another 20 years the various local success stories will be few and episodic, more the occasional bright-spot than genuine concord of illumination.

One’s quality of life is so much more determined by family relations than by the city itself. A couple raising kids takes their social bearings from the trappings of parenthood, projecting their efforts onto the tending towards their children. Theaters, malls, art galleries, live music, impressive urban architecture, trendy bars, upscale restaurants, granite-lined riverbanks and magnificent suspension-bridges recede into secondary importance, behind good schools, smooth sidewalks, clean air and safe play-areas. These latter offerings are eminently good throughout much of the Dayton region, and this is why, with good justification, one often hears that Dayton is a good place to raise a family. But on the other hand we have the single young (or no longer particularly young) professional, without a family or any family connections. This is the sort of person who craves urban amenities and who really belongs in the nation’s principal glamor-cities.

When generally stew in the broth of our own preparation. I regret many things about Dayton, but ultimately this is an impotent regret, and one does better by stoic acceptance.

[Lucy Striker]

Originally Posted by sphincter muscle

@Smart GXL

You are right on the money about Englewood, OH. I am a ham radio operator and I attend the Dayton Hamvention every year and I have done so for the last 20 years and never had a problem. Recently I have noticed the complexion of the local natives has dramatically changed. Having said that while returning from the Hara Convention center and passing through Englewood in my car I suddenly had a young black male run out in front of my car frantically waving his arms belligerently yelling something. I violently swerved and narrowly missed him. My passenger yelled "did you see that'? I said yeah I saw him. He said no, did you see that dude had a pistol stuffed under his belt. I could see the gun grip sticking out of his pants. I said NO I did not see that I was trying too hard to miss him. He was out to car jack us in broad daylight. This guy must have been on Crack or Meth, who knows. He almost bought the farm that day. It was like something out of that Mad Max movie.
I don't think I will be returning to the Dayton Hamvention anymore. Too Risky, I will probably take up wing walking instead.

"Recently I have noticed the complexion of the local natives has dramatically changed."

*You noticed that, recently, the white people are turning black in Englewood? Rhetorically, that's what this sentence states. While that would be quite a sight to behold, something tells me what is actually being said is wholly racist, to put it mildly. Yes: racist. To selectively report on one incident (and your conjecture about what was occurring) as if that is situation speaks for an entire neighborhood! Ridiculous. Yes, Englewood has crime, but it is lower than the US average, and, in fact, the murder and violent crime rate there is not significant. Since 2007, there have been two or three murders. Not exactly terrifying.

Englewood, OH is 80% white. (Not that this makes it "safe." Just saying.)

"I don't think I will be returning to the Dayton Hamvention anymore. Too Risky, I will probably take up wing walking instead."
Really? That's funny? A mother of two dies LAST WEEKEND at the air show and you use it as a metaphor to take a swipe at a neighborhood?

The photo is from one of my favorite parks, in the same area.

Everything isn't so...um...well, there's a always a grey area.

-L

[Tarheel8406]

^ This. And, not to mention that SmartGXL is talking about a neighborhood in Chicago called Englewood, not Englewood, OH.

[SWOH]

Originally Posted by sphincter muscle

@Smart GXL

You are right on the money about Englewood, OH. I am a ham radio operator and I attend the Dayton Hamvention every year and I have done so for the last 20 years and never had a problem. Recently I have noticed the complexion of the local natives has dramatically changed. Having said that while returning from the Hara Convention center and passing through Englewood in my car I suddenly had a young black male run out in front of my car frantically waving his arms belligerently yelling something. I violently swerved and narrowly missed him. My passenger yelled "did you see that'? I said yeah I saw him. He said no, did you see that dude had a pistol stuffed under his belt. I could see the gun grip sticking out of his pants. I said NO I did not see that I was trying too hard to miss him. He was out to car jack us in broad daylight. This guy must have been on Crack or Meth, who knows. He almost bought the farm that day. It was like something out of that Mad Max movie.
I don't think I will be returning to the Dayton Hamvention anymore. Too Risky, I will probably take up wing walking instead.

Hi sphincter muscle,

Did you report the incident to the police? That is scary! And it is also a blatant crime. That piece of slime should be behind bars.


Honestly, though, I think it is an isolated incident. I have family that lives there, and they have never had a problem. I also have worked in the area, and have never had an issue.

Englewood is more diverse than most area suburbs, but it is still very affluent. In general, the African-American population in Englewood is middle-class & well-educated. Many chose to live in the city because of the lack of problems like crime and blight. Some people there consider themselves to have "escaped" from worse areas (like what is near near Hara Arena) and actively work to keep Englewood safe.

Hara Arena (which hosts the Hamvention) is located in Trotwood, not Englewood. Trotwood has a higher crime rate than a lot of other suburbs. However, the Hamvention is one of Dayton's largest events, so it is well patrolled by police from all the surrounding suburbs. Additionally, Hara Arena is somewhat isolated, making it harder for criminals to access it. In general, crime problems in Trotwood occur directly along the Salem Ave. corridor, especially at points south of the intersection with Turner Rd.

[dxdtdemon]

Yeah, this is the problem with many things having the same name. The reference was to the Englewood neighborhood of Chicago, which is one of the highest crime ones in that city. AFAIK, there is no South State Street in Englewood, OH.

[Natural510]

"Local natives"...sounds like something out of a 1930s African safari movie. The kind of thing someone who goes to a ham radio convention might say.

[Lucy Striker]

Originally Posted by Tarheel8406

^ This. And, not to mention that SmartGXL is talking about a neighborhood in Chicago called Englewood, not Englewood, OH.

1. What does "this" mean, in the way you're using it? Please be specific if you're going to mention someone.

2. Since another poster responded about Englewood, OH (making the comments I quoted), I was responding to that poster. That isn't confusing.

3. Trotwood definitely has a higher crime rate, and parts of the neighborhood are downright terrible. I know one person who lives there, an elderly, single woman, and she does not have problems at all. Be that as it may, I would not choose to live in a neighborhood that, on the whole, has so many shootings. And yet, I do choose to live in East Dayton, which others may feel they wouldn't wish to do. There are not many shootings, but that isn't to say there isn't crime. I do not feel unsafe here or I wouldn't live here, and luckily have the very slight bit of social mobility to be able to make that choice. I also feel where one feels "safe" has to do with multitudinous factors that compromise one's comfort zone.

4.

-L

[Tarheel8406]

I was just saying that I agree with you, and my post was in response to the guy with the 'creative' screen name who mistook Englewood, Chicago for Englewood, OH.

[Lucy Striker]

See subject.

-L

[OhioAggie]

I can't believe someone can take one isolated incident as representative of an entire city. As a CURRENT resident of Englewood, I can assure you that what happened is definitely not the norm. As has been chronicled in other discussions on here, Englewood is a very pleasant and safe city to live in. I'm sorry that your experience happened, and I'm even more sorry that you felt it was worth the time to bump a two year old thread to mistakingly compare Englewood, OH to one of the worst neighborhoods of Englewood, Chicago. Crime can happen anywhere at any time of day in any city.

My suggestion - if you're going to talk trash about a city, make sure you know more about it rather than just base your opinion on one unfortunate incident.

Also, let's try to be a little bit more respectful around here. No need to bash someone who just died from a freak accident by calling them "selfish" and "foolish." Also no reason to start saying other posters have a "weak and feeble brain."

I hope your outlook toward a lot of things gets better and you have a better visit next time you come to Dayton.