Should Delaware annex Southern New Jersey? (Wilmington, New Castle: crime, college, most dangerous)

[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by muppethammer26

How could Jersey's politics, economy and culture would dominate? Trenton would no longer be the capital for the lower 8 counties. Instead Dover would be a new capital for the lower 8 counties of NJ (soon to be called the upper 8 counties of DE). The culture would become Delaware's culture. The economy of SNJ would become part of Delaware's economy. The politics of SNJ would be Delaware's politics as well. Cities such as Atlantic City would no longer listen to what Trenton does. Instead, they would listen to what Dover does.

If Delaware became part of the new state of South Jersey or Southern New Jersey became part of Delaware, I would still call the state Delaware because it has the Delaware Bay in the middle and there is already a New Jersey in the US. I would rather call the new expanded state Delaware rather than South Jersey. South Jersey sounds weird to me. Delaware sounds better. If Southern New Jersey ever left New Jersey, it would more likely become part of Delaware rather than a new state and the state would still mostly likely be called Delaware.

Atlantic City, SJ, Wilmington, SJ and Dover, SJ sounds awkward to me. Atlantic City, DE, Wilmington, DE and Dover, DE sounds better to me.

I agree Delaware sounds better than South Jersey, but I wonder if this kind of thing ever happened if they would move the capital to Camden or Atlantic City? Dover would kind of awkwardly be in the "southwest extension" of the state whereas Camden or Atlantic City would be more "centrally located". I realize not all states have their capitals "centrally located" (Alaska with Juneau is an extreme example of one that doesn't), but most do with a slight skew towards the populated areas when they are in a corner of a state (i.e. NY's capital is Albany because it somewhat central geographically but closer to NYC than the true "geographic center" which would be closer to Binghamton or Syracuse).

Even in Delaware itself the capital is probably Dover over Wilmington because its in the center of the state and Wilmington is in the northern/northeastern extremity.

[snj90]

An interesting idea. We are more similar to Delaware than SE PA or Northern NJ. Whenever I read about Newark, the first city that comes to mind is not the one NJ but the one in Delaware... I commuted there everyday for the better part of a year for work, after all. I especially like the southern parts of Delaware (i.e., the "lower, slower Delaware"). And indeed, the idea of not being part of NJ any longer is rather appealing because of its bad reputation, which is not completely deserved. One thing I'd be concerned about, however, are the economic ramifications. What I do know is, it's like night and day between this side of the river and the Delaware/PA side. Here there is a relative dearth of development, and I like it that way and don't want it to ever change. If I want to go shopping, I'll go to Delaware. However, leave my area alone. Many of our local farms and indeed, an area as large as Pine Barrens are aided by strong regulations. A lot of farms here have signs that say they are protected. What kinds of protections are available under Delaware state law, which are not just environmental but cultural? Delaware's philosophy seems more centered on being a corporate tax haven, which is an abhorrent thought. But how much this drives development and affects everyday I do not know.

[doctorjef]

I don't understand threads like this. A change in the boundaries between DE and NJ would take consent of the legislatures of both states, approval by their governors, might involve federal action (although no new state would be created, it is likely that concerns about changing the population composition of the two states would affect electoral politics, and you would thus have party leaders in Congress leading a charge to slow down, investigate, and potentially prevent the proposed change), and would likely involve legal challenges in the courts due to various interests. In short, it would hardly be a do-able thing. Undoubtedly the NJ government would perceive an intolerable loss of revenue and would thus refuse to consent to such a plan. I'm also not sure that Delaware politicians and residents would be really interested in the costs of dealing with a big increase in Atlantic shoreline. If referenda were held, they would be non-binding and probably would not have official state sanction, which would mean they'd be about as valid as the referenda being held in eastern Ukraine.

[slowlane3]

With a body of water between the 2 parts, the new state would be sort of like Michigan which has its upper peninsula and lower peninsula, connected only in one place by the long Mackinac Bridge.

[nuts2uiam]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

I don't understand threads like this. A change in the boundaries between DE and NJ would take consent of the legislatures of both states, approval by their governors, might involve federal action (although no new state would be created, it is likely that concerns about changing the population composition of the two states would affect electoral politics, and you would thus have party leaders in Congress leading a charge to slow down, investigate, and potentially prevent the proposed change), and would likely involve legal challenges in the courts due to various interests. In short, it would hardly be a do-able thing. Undoubtedly the NJ government would perceive an intolerable loss of revenue and would thus refuse to consent to such a plan. I'm also not sure that Delaware politicians and residents would be really interested in the costs of dealing with a big increase in Atlantic shoreline. If referenda were held, they would be non-binding and probably would not have official state sanction, which would mean they'd be about as valid as the referenda being held in eastern Ukraine.

Of course you are correct, the OP has yet to explain why it is beneficial to DE. I think you are way over his/her head, but I agree 1000% with your comment.

[muppethammer26]

Southern New Jersey feels more like Delaware to me. The people down in Southern New Jersey has Delaware accents and eat cheesesteaks and hoagies. I consider myself a Delawarean and I live in Cumberland County, Delaware.

[muppethammer26]

Originally Posted by nuts2uiam

Of course you are correct, the OP has yet to explain why it is beneficial to DE. I think you are way over his/her head, but I agree 1000% with your comment.

Delaware would be more widely known across the US and around the World because of Atlantic City and Delaware would have a international airport as well. Sadly, Delaware is one of the least known states in the US.

[nuts2uiam]

Originally Posted by muppethammer26

Southern New Jersey feels more like Delaware to me. The people down in Southern New Jersey has Delaware accents and eat cheesesteaks and hoagies. I consider myself a Delawarean and I live in Cumberland County, Delaware.

Sorry,but you are totally confused. Cheesesteaks are from Philly, ditto hoagies. Lastly, unless there is a yet to be recognized county in De. you live in NJ. despite what you consider yourself to be.

[nuts2uiam]

Originally Posted by muppethammer26

Delaware would be more widely known across the US and around the World because of Atlantic City and Delaware would have a international airport as well. Sadly, Delaware is one of the least known states in the US.

Well as a transplant that totally does it for me. I'll meet you on the steps of the capital in Cumberland County, DE. and we an plan the rally.

[avg12]

Originally Posted by 7 Wishes

I agree Delaware sounds better than South Jersey, but I wonder if this kind of thing ever happened if they would move the capital to Camden or Atlantic City? Dover would kind of awkwardly be in the "southwest extension" of the state whereas Camden or Atlantic City would be more "centrally located". I realize not all states have their capitals "centrally located" (Alaska with Juneau is an extreme example of one that doesn't), but most do with a slight skew towards the populated areas when they are in a corner of a state (i.e. NY's capital is Albany because it somewhat central geographically but closer to NYC than the true "geographic center" which would be closer to Binghamton or Syracuse).

Even in Delaware itself the capital is probably Dover over Wilmington because its in the center of the state and Wilmington is in the northern/northeastern extremity.

In this scenario of Delaware annexing So. NJ, I'd think Wilmington would become the new capital since it'd be central to the existing Delaware and South Jersey. Maybe then Wilmington would become a higher profile but small city over time and on a national level, and more directly competing against Philadelphia within the region.

I don't think Ocean County would join in this new state, but it would be part of the original NJ, since it's part of NY MSA. I'm not even sure if NJ would want to give up Burlington County or if Burlington County would want to join the new state. NJ probably wouldn't give up Atlantic or Cape May counties.

So, maybe at most Salem, Cumberland and Gloucester counties, the far most southern-western counties near DE join DE.

Delaware is a low profile state. It's not like Maryland, NJ or MA that desire to be bigger than it is currently. But in this scenario, let's assume it did, annexing these NJ counties would help it gain more mass and national scale.

It'd be interesting if no sales tax would prevail. My guess is not, so Delawareans wouldn't want anything that would jeopardize it's tax structure to be more like NJ.