Car Free living in Denver (Golden, Estes Park: moving, public transportation, activities)

[kevin_in_Denver]

Uber and Car2Go have made car ownership unnecessary. But a bicycle is the quickest way to get around for shorter trips.

[smihaila]

Originally Posted by livecontent

I started this thread in 2007 to show how one can live car free or car less in the Denver Metro area. There have been some significant changes in the system. First I wanted to cover recent studies that show how well Denver Public Transit is ranked as a Public Transit system.

One of the biggest studies is from the Brookings Institute with the study, Missed Opportunity: Transit and Jobs in Metropolitan America It looks at the how good the public transit systems are in getting people to jobs in an area. Denver has been ranked number 6 out of 100 metro areas

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Fil...s/DenverCO.pdf

The full report is located at Missed Opportunity: Transit and Jobs in Metro America - Brookings Institution

It stands to reason that if more people can access their jobs by public transit then the public transit system can be considered a better system because jobs are all over a metro area, just as other amenities and destinations.

The Denver Public Transit System has been ranked as the No. 1 system by U.S. News and World Reports 1. Denver-Aurora, Colo.: The 10 Best Cities for Public Transportation - US News & World Report

A just released report from the US Census titled:
Commuting in the United States: 2009
http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/acs-15.pdf
shows that Denver is on the top of many cities in using public transit, Figure 6, Page 8 as No. 13 out of 50 metro areas.

Now I am not naive to believe that a report gives a full picture of public transit in the US. However, a combination of media stories and hard data do indicate that the Denver Public transit is considered among the best in the country, on some measures.

I have lived in NYC and in Europe and have used public transit frequently. Denver certainly does not compare to New York City or Paris or London--it is not in that league. But for a city of its size in the US, it is not a bad system.

I have lived in this area for 33 years and I have always been a big transit user. I now drive about 2500 to 3000 miles a year on my car, being retired but I just sold my car I bought new in 1994 and it had 74,000 miles. I had only one car, so I drove very little over many years; and I did not stay at home, I worked and I got around the city. That is why I know much about this city as I have seen it at ground level, on a bike, on a bus, on foot and not only through the window of a car, speeding by.

I am now disabled, so I now use the disability para-transit as well as regular buses and rail. I consider the Public Transit, a good system that has got much better over the many decades that I have been a rider.

Some posters have criticized the system, as a bad system. I find that many of these people are not frequent users or never use public transit--they are auto drivers. They never leave their car but will complain. They will never take public transit. Many criticize and do not live in Denver or have not lived here for years, so their familiarity of the system is dated and questionable.

Yes, the public transit cannot serve all needs. It cannot provide always the fastest service. It cannot service to all destination at all times. It is a shared service that must serve many people, so compromises have to be made. It may not provide the most economical service to everyone. It will have funding issues just like any other private and public enterprise and services will be cut to make budgets. No public transit system, including the largest in New York City can provide service for all the residents.

The public transit systems is not designed to take the place of cars. It is designed to work with highways and roads which also are a part of government funded public transit. Today we recognize other means of transit which are included in the transit modality, that is walking and biking.

Of course the public transit agency in Denver, RTD, does have problems but over time these problems are addressed and the system gets better and better. I will add to this thread about recent changes to the system and discuss further ways that one can use public transit more and your cars less by giving you my experience and hopeful get others in better using the system.

I really do not care about trolls who stick a quick post about how they will never use public transit. This thread is not to serve you. You have what you want, good for you.

We must keep in mind that many people cannot drive and own a car because they are old or disabled or poor or too young. These are the people that have more of an essential need for public transit. Are any of you so uncaring and unaware of other needs, that you will attempt to hinder me from providing this information?

There are others who have elected public transit because it serves some of their needs. If you do not need public transit and you are satisfied with your car, then this thread is not for you.

If your are upset about paying tax dollars for public transit then voice your opinion in the ballot box, as this thread is not for that purpose to argue for or against and is not for you. This thread is about providing information for people who have a need or desire to use public transit.

Livecontent

If Denver's RTD made it as the 1st in the top 100 best transit systems in US, then I don't know what Montreal's STM transit system should rank. I've found it to be the best of the best - almost on par with Europe!

[smihaila]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

Because that is what our dominant infrastructure is.

It's like a decade or two ago, arguing that "people will never want to live in the city again", because suburbs were springing up everywhere. New urbanism was considered a fad and anyone that wanted an urban (or even elements of an urban) lifestyle were laughed as hippies. Now cities are scrambling to change that and lure people back in to their downtown districts. Even suburbs are trying to emulate it with "new urbanist", small town, main street type vibes. Sure, some people are still going to prefer the Highlands Ranch, drive till you qualify, garage in the front, yard in the back, two miles to the store lifestyle...but other people will try something else if given the option.

When people are offered alternatives, many WILL and HAVE taken them.

Interesting view - thank you for helping me in better understanding the root cause for the alarming trends of urbanism disappearing, and the recent (albeit unsuccesful IMHO) "emulations" of urbanism!

[Highpointer]

If you live in Denver, but don't have a car, then how do you get out to the mountains when you want to enjoy the outdoor recreational opportunities that Colorado offers?

I can see living in a city in a flat region without a car, but one of the major reasons to live in Colorado is its exceptional access to mountains for skiing, hiking, mountaineering, and other outdoor activities.

Why would you live in Denver if you don't enjoy the mountains? You might as well live in the Midwest instead, and leave living in Colorado for people who really enjoy mountains.

(This is from the perspective of a former Colorado resident, who wanted to remain in Colorado but had to move out of Colorado due to competition for good jobs).

[Highpointer]

Originally Posted by AmFest

Try to have a car. Granted, if you work downtown and live near a grocery store you'll be fine with daily activities, but how are you going to enjoy the outdoor scene that attracts so many people here?

Originally Posted by livecontent

You need look around and actually see what is available without having to drive. Many parks, trails and open space are accessible by public transit. For example, you can put your bike on southwest rail line and get off at the Mineral Station. There you will find multiple trails along the Platte, going north or south to Chatfield Reservoir with a wildlife preserve right near the station. I did that many times!

There are buses that go to the foothills, like Evergreen, Nederland etc. with much nature on the bus lines which you can enjoy. Again, I did that many times; hiked and biked with taking these buses.

What if you want to go to the ski areas throughout the state, or climb all of the state's high peaks, such as the 54 Colorado 14ers or the over 700 peaks that exceed 13,000 feet in elevation. How can you do that without owning a reliable vehicle that will enable you to get to these locations?

[woob]

Originally Posted by Highpointer

What if you want to go to the ski areas throughout the state, or climb all of the state's high peaks, such as the 54 Colorado 14ers or the over 700 peaks that exceed 13,000 feet in elevation. How can you do that without owning a reliable vehicle that will enable you to get to these locations?

Then you would definitely need a car. But there are a surprisingly large number of people who live in Denver and enjoy the city and don't go skiing and hiking every weekend. Also, it is very easy to get to the foothills without a car. I take my bike on the light rail and bike up lookout mountain or deer creek canyon and love not having to drive to bike

[Highpointer]

Originally Posted by Highpointer

What if you want to go to the ski areas throughout the state, or climb all of the state's high peaks, such as the 54 Colorado 14ers or the over 700 peaks that exceed 13,000 feet in elevation. How can you do that without owning a reliable vehicle that will enable you to get to these locations?

Originally Posted by woob

Then you would definitely need a car. But there are a surprisingly large number of people who live in Denver and enjoy the city and don't go skiing and hiking every weekend. Also, it is very easy to get to the foothills without a car. I take my bike on the light rail and bike up lookout mountain or deer creek canyon and love not having to drive to bike

I never understand why people who don't enjoy mountains would live in the Denver metropolitan area. If you don't enjoy mountains, then live in a flat region not close to mountains, and leave the living in the Denver metropolitan area to people who really take advantage of living near an immense mountainous environment.

For example, one could live in Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, or some other flat state and enjoy a non-mountain living lifestyle and doing activities that don't require higher or rugged terrain, at a lower cost of living with less traffic, which in turn will provide greater opportunities for mountain-loving people to live in the Denver metropolitan area.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Highpointer

I never understand why people who don't enjoy mountains would live in the Denver metropolitan area. If you don't enjoy mountains, then live in a flat region not close to mountains, and leave the living in the Denver metropolitan area to people who really take advantage of living near an immense mountainous environment.

For example, one could live in Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, or some other flat state and enjoy a non-mountain living lifestyle and doing activities that don't require higher or rugged terrain, at a lower cost of living with less traffic, which in turn will provide greater opportunities for mountain-loving people to live in the Denver metropolitan area.

I don't understand people who don't want to go beyond the metro limits period, which is about your boundary w/o a car, regardless of the city.

[davebarnes]

Originally Posted by Highpointer

If you live in Denver, but don't have a car, then how do you get out to the mountains

You rent a car.
You find a deal with a rental company for weekend rentals.
You have a good credit card so you can avoid all the outrageous insurance add-ons.

Unless your car is total beater, it costs $5000+ per year to own a car.
Think annual costs and not marginal.

[Highpointer]

Originally Posted by Highpointer

I never understand why people who don't enjoy mountains would live in the Denver metropolitan area. If you don't enjoy mountains, then live in a flat region not close to mountains, and leave the living in the Denver metropolitan area to people who really take advantage of living near an immense mountainous environment.

For example, one could live in Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, or some other flat state and enjoy a non-mountain living lifestyle and doing activities that don't require higher or rugged terrain, at a lower cost of living with less traffic, which in turn will provide greater opportunities for mountain-loving people to live in the Denver metropolitan area.

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

I don't understand people who don't want to go beyond the metro limits period, which is about your boundary w/o a car, regardless of the city.

Katarina, you make a good point. Most regions have many interesting places to visit, and many such places to visit are in small towns and rural areas. For example, here is a list of over 47 interesting places to visit in Iowa:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/things-to-do/iowa/places