u-turns question (Denver, Littleton: 2013, versus, safe)

[Robert5]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

He had the green light, you had a red light. He had the right away, you should have yielded to him.

I agree with. But I am no expert.

[chilicheesefries]

This is more interesting, because the intersection has both turn lanes with a 'left only' sign which implies that the u-turn was in fact not legal since only a left turn was allowed. There are plenty of intersections around town where the left-most lane shows left turn and u-turn are allowed.

To reinforce this, there are a growing number of intersections where there is a right-turn arrow that comes on when the cross-street has a green arrow. One of the intersections I drive through everyday - Arapahoe Rd. & Broadway in Littleton. Look at streetview - SB Broadway to EB Arapahoe has a double left turn lane and both signs say left-turn only. There is no sign that says U-turn prohibited. Now, when those left turn arrows come on, there is a right-turn arrow for WB Arapahoe to NB Broadway that comes on green like clockwork. Clearly there can not be legal u-turns from Broadway or else there would be collisions and both drivers would have had the right-of-way. The left-turn only sign implies that U-turns are not allowed at an intersection.

The U-turn by the driver on 120th was illegal because it was a left-turn only lane. Probably not enforced much, but I always keep my head on a swivel when making a u-turn or turning right where somebody looks like they may be making a u-turn because you never want there to even be a question if an accident if your fault.

[Robert5]

Originally Posted by chilicheesefries

This is more interesting, because the intersection has both turn lanes with a 'left only' sign which implies that the u-turn was in fact not legal since only a left turn was allowed. There are plenty of intersections around town where the left-most lane shows left turn and u-turn are allowed.

u-turns are allowed under Colorado law unless there is a sign prohibiting them. Unless there was a "no u-turn" sign, then the u-turn was legal. The fact that the sign on the light only indicated a left turn, does not prohibit (or even imply that it is prohibited) a u-turn from the left most lane.

[chilicheesefries]

Originally Posted by Robert5

u-turns are allowed under Colorado law unless there is a sign prohibiting them. Unless there was a "no u-turn" sign, then the u-turn was legal. The fact that the sign on the light only indicated a left turn, does not prohibit (or even imply that it is prohibited) a u-turn from the left most lane.

I did quite a bit of reading on this - if you can find a reference that specially addresses the left-turn only sign and says you can make a u-turn then I will be interested to see it and willing to change my stance. However, the few references I've been able to find are that the 'lane-control' sign takes precedence and does in fact make the u-turn illegal (it acts as and takes the place of the no u-turn sign by excluding the u-turn - no different from going straight in a turn only lane) since you are using it for purpose other than what it is signed for.

As I said, if you can find a specific reference I would be interested, as I can see both sides. However, please explain what would happen if somebody making a legal turn on a green right-turn arrow was hit by somebody making a u-turn on a left green arrow from a signed left-turn only lane. Again, not something you probably get a ticket for, but if you have an accident and they have to find out who had right-of-way, better make sure which is really correct.

[Robert5]

Originally Posted by chilicheesefries

However, please explain what would happen if somebody making a legal turn on a green right-turn arrow was hit by somebody making a u-turn on a left green arrow from a signed left-turn only lane.

If that ever happened the city/county responsible for programing the lights would be liable for creating a dangerous situation. I doubt you can site one intersection were that is possible.

[chilicheesefries]

Originally Posted by Robert5

If that ever happened the city/county responsible for programing the lights would be liable for creating a dangerous situation. I doubt you can site one intersection were that is possible.

I did in my original post - Broadway & Arapahoe. As soon as the left turn arrows come on, the right green turn arrow comes on. There are no 'no u-turn signs', only the left-turn signs. Look at it on streetview. What about NB Platte Canyon that gets a green right turn arrow onto EB Bowles while WB Bowles gets the left turn signal onto SB Platte Canyon. (these are both Littleton traffic lights)

Lucent & Highlands Ranch Pkwy. has a similar setup, except their left-turn signs say 'no u-turn' under the left-turn sign (same at Broadway & HR Pkwy) (Douglas County traffic lights).

Yosemite & Park Meadows Dr - same setup except there is no 'no u-turn' sign. (Lone Tree light)

Chambers & Iliff - same setup and there no 'no u-turn' signs. (Aurora light).

Point is - there are a lot of these setups around town (one direction gets a right-turn green arrow) which another gets a left-turn only green arrow. Some jurisdictions have 'no u-turn' signs on these intersections, some don't. The one thing these have in common is that they are left turn on green arrow only intersections. This strongly suggests you can't make a u-turn in these 'left turn only' lanes' whether marked or not because there will be right-hand turning cars and they will have a green right-turn arrow - I trust the traffic planners on this one.

[rumline]

Originally Posted by _DenverNative_

When turning, you're supposed to turn into the lane nearest you, not scoot across and go to the far lane like this guy did, also.

Originally Posted by shark6286

"Complete your turn in the lane closest to you on your side of the street." This is page 22 of the driver handbook. It was a regular sedan - definitely there was no need to cut all these lanes.

LOL what kind of car do you have where you can make a U-turn around a median as thin as the one pictured in the OP and end up in the left lane without crossing into any other lanes??

[rumline]

Originally Posted by chilicheesefries

I did in my original post - Broadway & Arapahoe. As soon as the left turn arrows come on, the right green turn arrow comes on. There are no 'no u-turn signs', only the left-turn signs. Look at it on streetview. What about NB Platte Canyon that gets a green right turn arrow onto EB Bowles while WB Bowles gets the left turn signal onto SB Platte Canyon. (these are both Littleton traffic lights)

[...]

This strongly suggests you can't make a u-turn in these 'left turn only' lanes' whether marked or not because there will be right-hand turning cars and they will have a green right-turn arrow - I trust the traffic planners on this one.

No, it strongly suggests that the traffic planners are incompetent. If you offer a protected right turn (green right arrow) then the cross street needs to have a "No U-Turn" sign. Having one without the other invites confusion and dangerous situations where both parties think they have the right of way.

[Timmyy]

Originally Posted by chilicheesefries

I did quite a bit of reading on this - if you can find a reference that specially addresses the left-turn only sign and says you can make a u-turn then I will be interested to see it and willing to change my stance. However, the few references I've been able to find are that the 'lane-control' sign takes precedence and does in fact make the u-turn illegal (it acts as and takes the place of the no u-turn sign by excluding the u-turn - no different from going straight in a turn only lane) since you are using it for purpose other than what it is signed for.

As I said, if you can find a specific reference I would be interested, as I can see both sides. However, please explain what would happen if somebody making a legal turn on a green right-turn arrow was hit by somebody making a u-turn on a left green arrow from a signed left-turn only lane. Again, not something you probably get a ticket for, but if you have an accident and they have to find out who had right-of-way, better make sure which is really correct.

I think you are talking about a protected right arrow. If you are turning right on one of those and someone hits you making a U-turn they are in the wrong because U-turns are not allowed at that location. A good example of this is the intersection at Peoria and Lincoln. I drive it daily and there is a protected right turn from Peoria to Lincoln but I always see people making U-turns from the Lincoln left turn lane. I have never seen an accident but there have been some very close calls.

[DenverEN]

I've always been confused about U turns here. Coming from California, where they're common, I never know here. I think because in California, where you have a stop light with a double left turn lane, the sign shows the outer lane (to the right) with an arrow showing left turn only, and the inner lane (left) has an arrow showing a U turn. So it's very obvious that a U turn is legal. Here, I don't see anything saying you can't, but then the inner arrow doesn't make a U.