u-turns question (Greenwood Village: safety, vehicle, station)

[mic111]

I think you only can't do them when it specifically prohibits them.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by chilicheesefries

This is more interesting, because the intersection has both turn lanes with a 'left only' sign which implies that the u-turn was in fact not legal since only a left turn was allowed. There are plenty of intersections around town where the left-most lane shows left turn and u-turn are allowed.

To reinforce this, there are a growing number of intersections where there is a right-turn arrow that comes on when the cross-street has a green arrow. One of the intersections I drive through everyday - Arapahoe Rd. & Broadway in Littleton. Look at streetview - SB Broadway to EB Arapahoe has a double left turn lane and both signs say left-turn only. There is no sign that says U-turn prohibited. Now, when those left turn arrows come on, there is a right-turn arrow for WB Arapahoe to NB Broadway that comes on green like clockwork. Clearly there can not be legal u-turns from Broadway or else there would be collisions and both drivers would have had the right-of-way. The left-turn only sign implies that U-turns are not allowed at an intersection.

The U-turn by the driver on 120th was illegal because it was a left-turn only lane. Probably not enforced much, but I always keep my head on a swivel when making a u-turn or turning right where somebody looks like they may be making a u-turn because you never want there to even be a question if an accident if your fault.

Thats a good catch, but it looks like a standard double left turn sign for anywhere in Colorado. Has anyone ever seen a sign like this in Colorado?

If not, then by your logic, U-Turns would be illegal from any left turn lane in Colorado. A left turn lane by it's self doesn't necessarily prohibit U-turns, unless doing so endangers other traffic. Going by what the OP has already posted, I think it would be safe to say that he thinks the other driver did endanger traffic. But I think that most other people would see that as a totally normal safe U-turn.

U-Turns - U-turns are forbidden unless they can be made without endangering other traffic. Prohibitory signs are usually posted at hazardous locations. U-turns are normally permitted where your vehicle can be seen for a great distance. However, it is always preferable to continue to the next street or turn-around area if a U-turn cannot be made safely. Do not try to make a sudden U-turn in front of traffic traveling either direction.

Colorado Drivers Handbook Page 22

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by rumline

LOL what kind of car do you have where you can make a U-turn around a median as thin as the one pictured in the OP and end up in the left lane without crossing into any other lanes??

LOL, thats what I was thinking. The best turning radius car I have had, was a Honda CRX. With that car I could make a hard left turn from the Left Turn Lane, and that would put me right in the middle of the #2 lane going the opposite direction. I used to get so mad when I saw No U-Turn signs on narrow roads with two traffic lanes each direction. I knew why the sign was there, but it pissed me off anyway. Because that would have been an easy U-Turn for me. The car I have now needs about two and a half lanes of space. Which is just about what the OPs diagram shows.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by DenverEN

I've always been confused about U turns here. Coming from California, where they're common, I never know here. I think because in California, where you have a stop light with a double left turn lane, the sign shows the outer lane (to the right) with an arrow showing left turn only, and the inner lane (left) has an arrow showing a U turn. So it's very obvious that a U turn is legal. Here, I don't see anything saying you can't, but then the inner arrow doesn't make a U.

Thats a Caltrans sign.

There is no Federal Highway Administration sign like that, though there should be.

Watch out if you ever drive in Oregon. U-Turns are pretty much illegal everywhere here, so No U-Turn signs are non-existant. Oregon cops have a field day writing tickets to out of state drivers who don't know that.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by _DenverNative_

U-turns are illegal in the city of Denver. I don't know about other municipalities, but generally I'd think it's not legal unless it's marked.

Not true that I am aware of. I used to think they were, but I have found no supporting documentation. Only prohibited where marked according to Colorado driving handbook. If you know otherwise, please provide a link.

[rumline]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

U-Turns are pretty much illegal everywhere here, so No U-Turn signs are non-existant. Oregon cops have a field day writing tickets to out of state drivers who don't know that.

Thanks for the heads-up.

[Robert5]

Originally Posted by chilicheesefries

I did in my original post - Broadway & Arapahoe. As soon as the left turn arrows come on, the right green turn arrow comes on. There are no 'no u-turn signs', only the left-turn signs. Look at it on streetview. What about NB Platte Canyon that gets a green right turn arrow onto EB Bowles while WB Bowles gets the left turn signal onto SB Platte Canyon. (these are both Littleton traffic lights)

The one on Braodway & Arapahoe seems reasonably safe because northbound Broadway is 3 lanes wide and the unusually large right hand turning radius puts the merging vehicle beyond the point at which the vehicle making the u-turn would be merging. But the one you describe at Bowles and Platte Canyon seems crazy to me. It appears, based upon the satellite view, that they know that is dangerous and are carving off part of the former gas station property and expanding the right hand turn lane.

[philberf]

42-4-902. Limitations on turning around. (1) No vehicle shall be turned so as to proceed in the opposite direction upon any curve or upon the approach to or near the crest of a grade where such vehicle cannot be seen by the driver of any other vehicle approaching from either direction within such distance as is necessary to avoid interfering with or endangering approaching traffic.
(2) The driver of any vehicle shall not turn such vehicle at an intersection or any other location
so as to proceed in the opposite direction unless such movement can be made in safety and
without interfering with or endangering other traffic.
(3) Local and state authorities, within their respective jurisdictions, subject to the provisions
of section 43-2-135 (1) (g), C.R.S., in the case of streets which are state highways, may erect “Uturn” prohibition or restriction signs at intersections or other locations where such movements
are deemed to be hazardous, and, whenever official signs are so erected, no driver of a vehicle
shall disobey the instructions thereof.
(4) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class A traffic infraction.

From: https://www.ncticolorado.com/wp-cont...es-Traffic.pdf

It seems to me that U-turns are generally allowable, unless explicitly prohibited by signage or if it's too dangerous to do so. But if you have a protected left turn green arrow, without explicit U-turn prohibition, I think the presumption would be that it is generally ok, again, unless it endangers other traffic.

[Sean Kellogg]

Those of you saying the U-Turner had the right of way: Does that mean any person wishing to turn right at the red light needs to wait until every single left-turner at the green light is cleared, before turning right? Because there's no way the person wishing to turn right would know if the left-turners are turning left or U-turning.

[philberf]

Originally Posted by Sean Kellogg

Those of you saying the U-Turner had the right of way: Does that mean any person wishing to turn right at the red light needs to wait until every single left-turner at the green light is cleared, before turning right? Because there's no way the person wishing to turn right would know if the left-turners are turning left or U-turning.

As a matter of practicality, you're right, you can't tell who is or is not going to attempt that u-turn. However, since that person wanting to turn right has a red light, they are therefore not guaranteed a right turn on that red - it's merely allowable, but not guaranteed. Their certain obligation is to only move when safe, and it's their job to wait to move until it is safe (with a red light) or a green light.

If safe means waiting a long time because they're uncertain about the intent of the drivers in the left turn lane, so be it.

But again, as a matter of practicality, I think most of us are able to tell if Car A in the L turn lane is going to turn versus a u-turn reasonably quickly such that you could complete the R before you have to worry about car B doing a u-turn into you. Or maybe I'm just an aggressive R on red driver?