light rail fiasco #2 (sales, sales tax, live)

[woob]

Originally Posted by bullfish15

Did she say "I told you so!!!!!!!" ? I bet she did.

She absolutely did. But it all worked out in the end, we just got to dinner a half hour late. I promised to always scope the area out myself first before dragging her on the train again

[bhcompy]

Originally Posted by livecontent

The point of public transit is to serve all needs. It has always been the idea of public transit. Your views are a little narrow in focus. Yes, commuting times are important but not all the people have the luxury of a 8-5 M-F job.

You have workers who work during day; you have people working at different shifts, day and night and many of those jobs exist in the DTC. So, the maid and hospitality workers at the numerous hotels cannot have the same opportunity for public transit as you??? Is that what you are saying??? After all transit is only to serve the elite office worker--is that it.

You have students. You have the disabled, the elderly, the youth; all who cannot drive. You have the less fortunate who cannot afford a car;and we have mother earth who needs a little help with more environmental friendly solutions.

Public transit also involves pleasure and recreational movement of people. There is nothing wrong with stations designed for workhour commutes. What I am saying about these particular stations is that the access could have been better designed to serve residents in the area and provide better feeder buses for other than the commuting time. The area does have people living around the area. It does have venues that attract people other than the work time.

I am very familiar with the area and the problems of public transit in Denver. I have been using the system for 30 years. I think it is a good system but it has some problems. I have been to all these stations and I know that it is difficult for pedestrian access around the DTC.

The main problem is that the DTC was never built with the pedestrians in mind; it was designed for the only the automobile going to the office, the restaurants and the hotels. Now more residential units are being built in the more central area. However,there has to be better emphasis placed on people who walk, bike and take other buses. Today when we built Transit Oriented Development, we think of people too, not only cars. How many times have you used the stations in the DTC???? Oh, I see you live in Southern California--that is some commute. I know you people in California like to drive but...this is a little much.

Livecontent

ill admit i havent used the stations in dtc, but ive traveled the system a little bit. regardless, you cant have it both ways in todays society. its a feat of epic proportions that something like this was built in the first place in modern times, and i think that in a day when trying to limit the impact on the environment while roads are in terrible shape volume wise makes designing public transport for transport to and from job centers and suburbs the primary objective. costs are too high to provide public transport for pleasure/offpeak unless it works in tandem for providing for the primary revenue stream(people doing work)

[chilicheesefries]

Originally Posted by yodi

The Englewood Station is actually on the SW line. It's one that is very easily accessible as it's just a short walk from downtown Englewood as well as most Englewood neighborhoods. It's located right next to the Englewood public library and City Hall and there are apartments, shops and restaurants just steps away. IMO it's one of the better designed stations. I agree that they need to find a way to link the City of Sheridan to this light rail station. I was surprised that it wasn't a part of the planning when they built the new Riverpoint Sheridan.

It's not as good a station as the Englewood Station, but the Oxford station is right across Santa Fe from Riverpoint. To get there, go south on Windermere to Oxford and cross and go to Riverpoint Pkwy. I see several people doing that on bike and walking everytime I go to the Costco there. It would be difficult to link Sheridan to the light rail because of the nature of the area - industrial, rr tracks, controlled access road in Santa Fe. The only way I see would be to put a bridge over (or under) Santa Fe somewhere, but doing that north of Hampden from the Englewood station wouldn't help because you'd still have to cross Hampden. Seems the best solution would be to build a bridge over Santa Fe somewhere from the Oxford station. Probably is cost prohibitive though because of how close it is to Oxford.

[robertzimmerman]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

Wow...I've never seen the station but just looking at it on Google Earth I can immediately see multiple problems with this station. It's fine if it's only meant as a Park & Ride depot, but otherwise it really is designed terribly from an urban planning perspective.

All the junk around the Southmoor station was there before the train line went in. RTD can't do anything about that. Add to this the almost rabid opposition to any sort of dense/urban-ish development amongst some of the people in the neighborhood (I know; I live in Southmoor and attended some of the planning meetings), and the patchwork ownership of the land, and I can just about guarantee you that it will always be ugly.

It's a shame. That's a nice piece of property, and it's going to waste.

[flyers29]

Looking at the Google Earth, I don't see how they really had the option to make it pedestrian friendly on the west side of the station. Not worth knocking down peoples' homes so you can take your bike there.

[FrozenShores]

Yeah, that is so ridiculous how they made the Southmoor station. What, they can't even make a pathway in between two of those homes? Maybe pay off just one home owner to make a connection to the west neighborhoods?

Well anyway, the solution to these problems will be the transit oriented developments or TOD's. The city will change the zoning to influence walkable development around the stations. Right now there is a much greater demand for living within walking distance of rail stations than the city has in stock. Once we increase our TOD home supply and build out these stations, then we'll see that maybe it was good that they built the stations where they did so there is land to build on. Just take a look at these TOD plans: the Denver TOD thread - SkyscraperPage Forum

[zenkonami]

Part of my point, I must say, is that having a station at such an inaccessible location defeats much of the purpose of public transit. Was it because it happened to fit the 1.5 mile average span between most of the stations on this line? Again, I know some of the people on this board were at those meetings and they have discussed the difficulties involved, It seems, however, that if homeowners are unwilling to play ball and businesses aren't going to change, then maybe it wasn't worth building.

If the park & ride turns out to justify it then perhaps I'm wrong. Otherwise that is indeed a classic case of wasted money and an unfortunate poster child for those who oppose rail transit and TOD.

[woob]

Originally Posted by flyers29

Looking at the Google Earth, I don't see how they really had the option to make it pedestrian friendly on the west side of the station. Not worth knocking down peoples' homes so you can take your bike there.

its not about me and my bike. its about connecting an entire neighborhood with public transit. if the neighborhood did not want it, or it was not possible, the station should have been placed elsewhere.

[robertzimmerman]

Originally Posted by woob

its not about me and my bike. its about connecting an entire neighborhood with public transit. if the neighborhood did not want it, or it was not possible, the station should have been placed elsewhere.

The reality is that people in the burbs will drive to the PNR, and they will take it downtown for work or a baseball game or whatever. A pathway through to the west side of the highway would serve about 50 houses that are close enough to walk, and would create parking problems for the people who live there. I live about a 10-minute walk from the station on the east side. My neighbors think that I'm mounting an expedition when I walk over to get the train.

And by the way, there are two buses that would have taken you from the Southmoor station west on Hampden. Buses are part of a public transport solution in a relatively undense (not a word, I know) city. I use them all the time to go to work in Greenwood Plaza.

[robertzimmerman]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

Part of my point, I must say, is that having a station at such an inaccessible location

It's very accessible to my house :-) and to my wife's office. Would you have the train not stop at an existing park and ride where there are connections to 4 or 5 bus lines? Just zoom on by? Those bus lines, by the way, connect much of northeast and east Denver/northwest Aurora to the light rail for access to points further south. The people getting off the 65 or the 105 bus for the train are generally not rich people (these are two lines I use frequently). I daresay that most of them are not on the bus/train by choice, but rather because they don't have cars.