Blacks in Livonia (Detroit, Jackson: bankrupt, best school, live in)

[CounselingWithX]

SOUTHFIELD, Mich. — Three years ago, Lamar Grace left Detroit for the suburb of Southfield. He got a good deal – a 3,000-square-foot colonial that once was worth $220,000. In foreclosure, he paid $109,000.
The neighbors were not pleased.
“They don’t want to live next door to ghetto folks,” he says.
That his neighbors are black, like Grace, is immaterial. Many in the black middle class moved out of Detroit and settled in the northern suburbs years ago; now, due to foreclosures, it is easy to buy or rent houses on the cheap here. The result has been a new, poorer wave of arrivals from the city, and growing tensions between established residents and the newcomers.
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[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by CounselingWithX

SOUTHFIELD, Mich. — Three years ago, Lamar Grace left Detroit for the suburb of Southfield. He got a good deal – a 3,000-square-foot colonial that once was worth $220,000. In foreclosure, he paid $109,000.
The neighbors were not pleased.
“They don’t want to live next door to ghetto folks,” he says.
That his neighbors are black, like Grace, is immaterial. Many in the black middle class moved out of Detroit and settled in the northern suburbs years ago; now, due to foreclosures, it is easy to buy or rent houses on the cheap here. The result has been a new, poorer wave of arrivals from the city, and growing tensions between established residents and the newcomers.
Moderator cut: quote shortened, copyright protection. Please provide a link to the original source

So not only is racism an issue, classism is also a problem. It also seems that it is immaterial to some of the established residents that persons like Lamar Grace want a nice home, away from the crime and blight that has been consuming Detroit for the past 30 years.

[SadieMirsade]

Originally Posted by hzxzly

I chose Livonia after commuting here for extra curricular activities for many years. I wanted to be closer to those activities, be in a good public school system and be able to take a walk at dusk without my dog for protection. During that time of frequenting Livonia for activities, shopping and dining I never once experienced any odd glances or overt racism.

To give an example, in elementary, my daughter was once being teased by a classmate calling her "the only black girl in 3rd grade". (It was a true statement but the delivery, intimidation intent, etc was the problem -- you get the point.) My daughter let me know and I let the teacher and principal know. The school personnel handled the whole situation masterfully and the resolution involved the kids being able to talk openly about (ethnic) differences. The school did not tolerate it and the other girl's parents were notified. Problem solved. We moved on and so did the kids.

And I have a kid who is one of the few "Whites" in his school. The school is overwhelmingly Asian, with a few Southeast Asians, East Africans, Blacks and Mulattoes. He has been teased about being the only White kid in class, but it wasn't anything malicious. He has mentioned to me, that anytime history or politics are discussed, he feels like, or gets pointed out as the White boogeyman. He recently talked about a White kid at school who "feels guilty and almost apologetic" about being White. I never made a stink about any of the teasing. Kids will be kids. I can't change White history and I can't change Black society.

He has asked me to enroll him in a school with more White kids 'cause he'd like to be around more kids who look like him.

The absurdity of the entire story is that my son is biracial (but look totally White). His grandfather is on the list of Who's Who of the Black society, so it's not like he's not aware of, or as if he were ashamed of his roots. Since very young, he's been told that he's Black (and proud).
I keep saying we should be proud of our individual efforts and achievements, and not of our color, race, tribe or collective identity.

I never expected for him to turn out that white. He simply doesn't look Black and when he looks in a mirror he sees a White boy. In fact, he knows a few kids like himself: Biracial kids, some with very green eyes and straight hair, who look thoroughly White, and burn when they hit the beach.

I intentionally placed him in this overwhelmingly Asian school, 'cause in the previous school, as soon as he started hanging out with Black kids, he was talking about dating, girlfriends, sex (grade 4). The Black kid he had befriended in grade 5 (at a previous school) styled himself as "Master Pimpologist". I had enough. I'd rather he learn Chinese than "Pimpology".

[Retroit]

So it is better for a light-skinned black child to be in an Asian school than to be in a black school. Interesting. What does that say about black culture?

...and what is being done about it?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by SadieMirsade

And I have a kid who is one of the few "Whites" in his school. The school is overwhelmingly Asian, with a few Southeast Asians, East Africans, Blacks and Mulattoes. He has been teased about being the only White kid in class, but it wasn't anything malicious. He has mentioned to me, that anytime history or politics are discussed, he feels like, or gets pointed out as the White boogeyman. He recently talked about a White kid at school who "feels guilty and almost apologetic" about being White. I never made a stink about any of the teasing. Kids will be kids. I can't change White history and I can't change Black society.

He has asked me to enroll him in a school with more White kids 'cause he'd like to be around more kids that look like him.

The absurdity of the entire story is that my son is biracial (but look totally White). His grandfather is on the list of Who's Who of the Black society, so it's not like he's not aware of, or as if he were ashamed of his roots. Since very young, he's been told that he's Black (and proud).
I keep saying we should be proud of our individual efforts and achievements, and not of our color, race, tribe or collective identity.

I never expected for him to turn out that white. He simply doesn't look Black and when he looks in a mirror he sees a White boy. In fact, he knows a few kids like himself: Biracial kids, some with very green eyes and straight hair, who look thoroughly White, and burn when they hit the beach.

I intentionally placed him in this overwhelmingly Asian school, 'cause in the previous school, as soon as he started hanging out with Black kids, he was talking about dating, girlfriends, sex (grade 4). The Black kid he had befriended in grade 5 (at a previous school) styled himself as "Master Pimpologist". I had enough. I'd rather he learn Chinese than "Pimpology".

I don't know how to respond to this, other than to give my take on it. Your child being biracial and passing for White, well, he shouldn't be ashamed, because at the end of the day, he is what he is.

I can understand the feeling of being one of "the few" in the school. This happened to me in middle school. I was one of the few Black kids in the school, and the only Black kid in my homeroom. To be honest, it was a culture shock because nothing like this ever happened to me before, that I could remember. I was also "the smart kid" and had some social awkwardness, so it made things a bit interesting. I have been around some malicious stuff. One kid throw rocks at me in gym class. A few kids found out I played baseball. They were pitchers. They would routinely threaten to "peg" me with a baseball if I was ever the batter. They would do this in class.

As for putting your child in an overwhelmingly Asian school as opposed to a Black school, well this is my input on that. It could happen anywhere. I never went to a predominantly Black school at all. In fact, I went to predominantly White schools most of my life and the "sexual stuff" you mention, I have never heard of it when I was in elementary school, from Black kids, White kids, or Hispanic kids, no one. In fact, the most I have heard was at a relatively diverse elementary school(alot of Blacks and Latinos, and some South Asians). I only heard comments from one kid, and he was making fun of pregnant teenagers. There were a few dysfunctional kids in my elementary school, but it was nothing compared to when I switched school districts and went to a middle school that was about 95% White. My father moved us all out because someone got murdered on our street. I was exposed to more sexually perverse crap than anything I had ever seen in my life. It was worse than the last place I lived. There were kids who constantly used foul language. talking about sexual parts and other stuff. I learned more foul stuff from White kids than I ever did from Black kids.

Most of the Black kids I was around in elementary school didn't talk about that stuff. I never heard the word "pimpology" until I got to college. The kid your son was around, well, what part of the metro area where you at?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Retroit

So it is better for a light-skinned black child to be in an Asian school than to be in a black school. Interesting. What does that say about black culture?

...and what is being done about it?

When I heard the comment, I had a sense of slight anger and some embarrassment. I'm not ashamed of being Black at all. There are many things in my culture that I like. R&B, especially the old school stuff, is what I consider good music. Jazz is a big part of it. Art(Henry Tanner, Romare Bearden, William Johnson), literature(James Baldwin, Richard Wright, Ralph Ellison, Toni Morrison, etc), scientists(Percival Julian, Daniel Hale Williams, Benjamin Banneker, Floyd Hall,etc). However, African-Americans are often known by the dysfunctional things, mainly the "thug culture". Hip-hop didn't start out dysfunctional. It was meant to keep youths from doing dysfunctional things. Alot of it turned bad when the love of money came into the picture. Alot of what I consider decent hip-hop is passed over for stuff that Li'l Wayne puts out. Jay-Z's "Big Pimpin" would make more money than something by Dead Prez'.

It angers me because general dysfunction is often associated with African-Americans and almost always specifically with African-Americans. Being in middle school around mostly White kids, I never thought to associate general dysfuntional with Black children because many of the White students I was around behaved just as badly. I was shot with a paintball gun by a White teenager. The Columbine massacre happened when I was in the 7th grade. I didn't see a single Black student in any of that. For that reason, to hear comments about Black children being bad, well, there might be some truth to SOME of it, but they way it's often put, it is like some people try to act like White children could do no wrong. My personal experiences tell me otherwise.

[SadieMirsade]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

When I heard the comment, I had a sense of slight anger and some embarrassment. I'm not ashamed of being Black at all. There are many things in my culture that I like. R&B, especially the old school stuff, is what I consider good music. Jazz is a big part of it. Art(Henry Tanner, Romare Bearden, William Johnson), literature(James Baldwin, Richard Wright, Ralph Ellison, Toni Morrison, etc), scientists(Percival Julian, Daniel Hale Williams, Benjamin Banneker, Floyd Hall,etc). However, African-Americans are often known by the dysfunctional things, mainly the "thug culture". Hip-hop didn't start out dysfunctional. It was meant to keep youths from doing dysfunctional things. Alot of it turned bad when the love of money came into the picture. Alot of what I consider decent hip-hop is passed over for stuff that Li'l Wayne puts out. Jay-Z's "Big Pimpin" would make more money than something by Dead Prez'.

It angers me because general dysfunction is often associated with African-Americans and almost always specifically with African-Americans. Being in middle school around mostly White kids, I never thought to associate general dysfuntional with Black children because many of the White students I was around behaved just as badly. I was shot with a paintball gun by a White teenager. The Columbine massacre happened when I was in the 7th grade. I didn't see a single Black student in any of that. For that reason, to hear comments about Black children being bad, well, there might be some truth to SOME of it, but they way it's often put, it is like some people try to act like White children could do no wrong. My personal experiences tell me otherwise.

I could have moved my son to an overwhelmingly White school. I chose that school. I wanted him exposed to Asians, Southeast Asians. I wanted him to see firsthand WHY their families are functional, and their kids are successful, why they're able to get off the boat and within a generation rise up in society. He has seen firsthand the discipline, commitment, hard work and sacrifices those parents have made for the future of their kids.
Their is nothing wrong with being humble, and in learning from "the other", by emulating the positive aspects of their culture and norms.

I've implied that I wasn't overly impressed with "Whites" either. I mean, given a choice of Bush, Trump, Obama or Palin, who'you gonna choose?

Yeah, there's a lot of Black dysfunction. And increasingly more and more White dysfunction too. But instead of being defensive about it, or in denial, DEAL with it.
(I know that's asking a lot, as I've obviously had a hard time dealing with it.)
I'm sure there are a lot of well meaning Whites who are willing to approach society as a whole (and not just from the perspective of their ethno-racial community) and extend their hand to all.
You don't like being burdened with Black dysfunction. I don't like being burdened with White guilt.
Let's put it this way. Your poor White neighbor will help you out sooner than Oprah or Obama will.
$$$, education and class transcend race and color.

[SadieMirsade]

Originally Posted by Retroit

So it is better for a light-skinned black child to be in an Asian school than to be in a black school. Interesting. What does that say about black culture?

...and what is being done about it?

I take issue with your provocative label of "white-skinned black child". In terms of color.....If you're black, you're black. If you're not, you're NOT. You can have African ancestry, you can be socialized into the Black subculture, but then, and still be white (as in color)you're implying that inherently that subculture is always dysfunctional. In your rigid social construct of White-Black worlds, you obviously can't swallow anything beyond that, and I think you'd better face reality, as most of future Americans are gonna look like Selena Gomez and my son (and he's waaaay whiter than her).
In terms of socialization, my son's been socialized in ALL worlds. His entire life, he's traveled, he's been around very accepting Whites, very accepting Blacks, Jews, Moslems, Arabs, he's climbed the pyramids, seen Rome, and swam in
the Red Sea. I won't be in denial and ignore the fact that being white of color can be an advantage. But I'll also have to say that being ugly and white could be worse than being black and good looking. We live in a world driven by images, bits and bytes....and our primal instincts are much stronger than our social constructs and indoctrination.

You're also implying that there is no hope for dysfunctional people, period. Are you forgetting about the rising tide of increasingly dysfunctional and permanently unemployed, under-educated Whites who will become a permanent presence in the near future?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by SadieMirsade

TheI could have moved my son to an overwhelmingly White school. I chose that school. I wanted him exposed to Asians, Southeast Asians. I wanted him to see firsthand WHY their families are functional, and their kids are successful, why they're able to get off the boat and within a generation rise up in society. He has seen firsthand the discipline, commitment, hard work and sacrifices those parents have made for the future of their kids.
ir is nothing wrong with being humble, and in learning from "the other", by emulating the positive aspects of their culture and norms.

I've implied that I wasn't overly impressed with "Whites" either. I mean, given a choice of Bush, Trump, Obama or Palin, who'you gonna choose?

Yeah, there's a lot of Black dysfunction. And increasingly more and more White dysfunction too. But instead of being defensive about it, or in denial, DEAL with it.
(I know that's asking a lot, as I've obviously had a hard time dealing with it.)
I'm sure there are a lot of well meaning Whites who are willing to approach society as a whole (and not just from the perspective of their ethno-racial community) and extend their hand to all.
You don't like being burdened with Black dysfunction. I don't like being burdened with White guilt.
Let's put it this way. Your poor White neighbor will help you out sooner than Oprah or Obama will.
$$$, education and class transcend race and color.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with learning from others. I am saying this: When someone says "I don't want my child around Blacks", I take that as a personal insult because I'm Black and I can't do anything about being Black. To me it's "don't want your kid around Blacks, you probably mean me too, even though I don't act like a thug or any of that stuff". I take it that way because as an African-American who doesn't live up to the stereotypes expected of me, it will mean I might get lumped in with African-Americans who actually do act dysfunctional.

This is something I want to say about "Black dysfunction": I am not denying it exists. I am not in denial that there are African-Americans who act very dysfuctional. With that said, I do get defensive about it because I can't do much about those who do act defensive, other than not be around them. I get defensive because I shouldn't have to deal with their stupidity. I know it's there. I see it on the news. I've seen some of it in person. I've been victimized by some of it. With that said, I've also been victimized by alot of "White dysfuction. So in my eyes, there isn't much difference between the two. My beef is when African-Americans like me have to worry about those who behave in a dysfuctional manner. I've had to worry about some people making me look bad. This is how I've seen it pan out. When a White kid commits a dysfunctional act, it is "that is a dysfunctional kid". When Black kid does it, it is "that is a dysfuctional Black kid". That's the difference. Dysfunction from Blacks is often named "Black dysfuction" without naming dysfunction from Whites "White dysfunction". That is part of my problem. It isn't my fault a few African-Americans don't want to take school seriously. It isn't your fault that a White teenager shot me with a paintball gun, or a few White kids threw rocks at me when I was walking through the neighborhood creek. Why should either one of us have to live with those dysfunctions and have to pay for them?

And what did you mean by this statement:

Your poor White neighbor will help you out sooner than Oprah or Obama will.

As for the last statement, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

[ForStarters]

I sometimes wish we all woke up purple tomorrow. It would really let people sort things out on the merits.