Detroit suburbs (Grand Rapids, Lansing, Kalamazoo: taxes, live in, moving to)

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

I'm not trying to tell you that your likes and dislikes need to change. We can't all like the same thing and that's great. I am merely saying that additional development of outer suburbs as regional population growth is 0 is unsustainable, and disagreeing with you that "most" people like Canton.

Canton is fine, and I'm sure that most who live in Canton like it, which is why they live there. As around my neighborhood most people dislike Canton, which is why they don't live there. They'll state that a suburb 40 minutes from the city center that is exactly like the suburb 25 minutes away (Livonia), the suburb 40 minutes away with a downtown (Plymouth), and the upscale suburb 40 minutes away with a fancy downtown (Northville), while being incredibly similar to the Canton of Oakland County (Novi) the Canton of Macomb County (Macomb Township) and the other Canton of Oakland County (Rochester Hills)... it's just... well... it's very average, but nice average, but unsustainable. And unless your main criteria for a place to live are proximity to an Ikea or proximity to Ann Arbor while simultaneously being in the most non-Ann-Arbor place possible, I don't know what the draw to Canton is over Macomb, Shelby, Novi, Lyon, Auburn Hills, blah, blah, blah, etc. Once you get past 275 or Hall Road, it's all the same to those of us who don't like outer-suburbia.

Admittedly there are a lot of people who like outer suburbia, and I'm sure there's some sort of nuance in it, but it's lost on me.

Great post. The exotic, diverse, urbane character of Detroit's inner ring suburbs is so often overlooked here -- and, indeed, by the world. There just isn't the appreciation for the sense of urban vibrancy one feels residing within a few miles of 8 Mile and Telegraph. And I completely agree that those who live a few miles west or north are cut off from the edgy international flavor of some of the world's most compelling bungalow communities. They've only gotten better since they were built, and it's an exciting time to call them home.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by leroythelion

Geo, maybe I missed it, but which great neighborhood do you live in?

Originally Posted by KayAnn246

Right! I like Canton and so do most people. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

You both missed the point. His critique was more directed at ills of exurban sprawl, with Canton being an example. His main point is below:

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

We live in a metro that hasn't changed in overall population since what, 1970? Yet its footprint keeps growing and growing and growing; decade after decade, there's a new "it" suburb farther and farther out. This is not healthy. It creates a substantial infrastructure cost that will become a long-term liability. Maybe not for you or I, but it will for our kids or grandkids. Or maybe they'll just go another 10 miles out and build another ring of suburbs? The comeback of Greater Downtown and the improved desirability of many of the inner-ring suburbs is very healthy for the metro as a whole. There's not much that can be done about mistakes made in the development of existing outer-ring suburbs. They are there and over time the maintenance of their infrastructure will become a larger and larger tax burden, but they will need to be maintained. What we can do is stop developing more and more of this sprawl, further and further out. Admittedly this isn't a Detroit-Only problem as every major city has this same development pattern, but an important difference is that the suburbanization of places like Atlanta, Houston, and Denver have come with metro populations that have tripled since the 1970s. Yet we're developing in the same pattern (though much more slowly) with 0 population growth.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by craig11152

Population density per square mile for the urban areas above..

Houston 2978
Detroit 2792
Atlanta 1706
Denver 1372
---------------------
central city population as % of area

Houston 42.5%
Denver 25.2%
Detroit 19.1%
Atlanta 9.3%
---------------------------------
central city land area percent of urban area
Houston 38.5%
Denver 22.9%
Detroit 10.3%
Atlanta 5.0%

You throw out stats trying to prove a point, but don't explain your point. You also sidestep his main point of the text you highlighted, and the main point is below:

...but an important difference is that the suburbanization of places like Atlanta, Houston, and Denver have come with metro populations that have tripled since the 1970s. Yet we're developing in the same pattern (though much more slowly) with 0 population growth

Do these statistics invalidate that contention? No.

[citidata18]

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

Canton 2018 is what Troy was in 1993.

I disagree.

Canton is the quintessential bedroom community (yes, one that punches above its weight because of its convenient location to Ford in Dearborn, but still a bedroom community), whereas Troy is (and even was in 1993) a major white collar employment center.

A better comparison to Canton would be Sterling Heights circa 1978.

[InnovativeAmerican]

Whatever you do, don't move to Livonia unless you are the right color. Livonia is the reason I harbor a lot of animosity towards suburbs. I grew up on the far west side of Detroit and attended grade school and high school in Livonia and let me just say - the residents there were viciously racist. That is all I am going to say, and I'm going to leave it at that.

[Pinballdad]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

I took a list I found and deleted the suburbs are are not doing well/are not very nice or are borderline. Everything else falls into the average, above average or great places to be mentioned above. I tried to highlight the ones I know to be especially nice, but I likely missed some (plus it is subjective). I may have missed a few from the first group that should be crossed out. Some areas I do not know super well.

Oddly, this list does not include Ann Arbor or Ypsilanti, or most Ann Arbor suburbs, although some that are closer to Detroit than others are included (like Plymouth). This leaves out a number of super nice cities form which quite a few people commute to Detroit. There is an endless debate as to whether Ann Arbor and its suburbs should be include din metro Detroit or not. Take your pick. On either side you can find pages of arguments on CD. No one has conclusively won such arguments, so you have a choice. However they are not included here becasue they were not on the list I found easily.

Also oddly, the City of Rochester is not listed, but Rochester Hills is. The City is nicer than Hills which is basically suburban sprawl (but nice/high end).

South Lyon and Lyon Township seem to be missing too. They should be higlghted as they are quite nice too.

Maybe this is list not very complete. I do not understand why some of these cities are missing.

Detroit Suburbs

Northern and Northwest Suburbs
Auburn Hills
Berkley
Beverly Hills
Birmingham
Bloomfield Hills
Bloomfield Township

Charter Township of Clinton
Chesterfield
Clawson
Eastpointe
Farmington
Farmington Hills
Ferndale
Grosse Pointe Farms
Grosse Pointe Park
Grosse Pointe Woods
Grosse Point City
Hamtramck
Harrison Charter Township
Hazel Park
Highland Park
Macomb Township
Madison Heights
New Baltimore
Oak Park
Oakland Township
Rochester Hills
Romeo

Royal Oak
Saint Clair Shores
Shelby Township
Sterling Heights
Troy
Utica
Warren
West Bloomfield Township


Southern & Downriver Suburbs
Allen Park
Brownstown Township
Dearborn
Dearborn Heights

Flat Rock
Gibraltar
Grosse Ile Township

Huron Township--New Boston,
Willow,
Waltz
Livonia
Riverview
Rockwood
Southgate
Trenton
Westland
Woodhaven
Wyandotte

Western Suburbs
Canton
Clarkston
Commerce Township
Franklin

Highland Charter Township
Independence Township
Lake Orion
Milford
Northville
Novi
Plymouth
Plymouth Township
Waterford Township
White Lake Charter Township
Wixom


Windsor, Ontario

City of Windsor
Amhertsburg
Essex
LaSalle
Tecumseh

Where is Roseville Michigan on list?

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by Pinballdad

Where is Roseville Michigan on list?

Next to Fraser

[RockChester]

For the most part, Oakland County is NOT suburban Detroit. Neither is Macomb. The cities right next to Detroit can be considered suburbs but Oakland and Macomb are very much separate from Detroit and do not identify with it. Calling Auburn Hills a suburb of Detroit is laughable.

There are two basic views in S.E. Michigan: People who are Detroit-centric and those who aren't. The Detroit-centric crowd thinks that anything and everything is about Detroit. Those who aren't think as little as possible about Detroit. If you are thinking of moving to any city, find out if it's in Wayne County. If it is, you'll have to travel to Detroit on a somewhat regular basis and your taxes will be higher. Either view, Detroit-centric or not, has truth to it. The trick is to find out how your particular life fits in. I would never move to Detroit, even if I was ridiculously rich. I don't consider where I live to be in the Detroit area. Others don't share that view. It's not an issue that has a right answer or a wrong one for everybody, it's highly subjective. But Auburn Hills, again, is in Oakland County, not Wayne, and isn't close to Detroit, and Detroit isn't big or important enough, to earn the right to call it a suburb.

[North 42]

Lol, Oakland and macomb counties are definately Detroit suburban areas!

[MaryinMichigan]

Hi Jim,

Most of the suburbs of Detroit are thriving. It really depends on what you’re looking for in a community. Some people want nightlife, dining, and shops. Others prefer parks, nature, and outdoor recreation. Some communities that are doing really well include Auburn Hills, Rochester, Ferndale, Clarkston, Royal Oak, Lake Orion and Troy. Your daily commute also comes into play when deciding which area you want to live in. This is my first post, so I hope I didn’t break any rules here.

MaryinMichigan