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Blue Grass, I can understand why you been perplexed, but the truth of the matter is its not a against you personally, and this racist crap is given from both Blacks and Whites. Not ALL Whites are bad, and neither is ALL Blacks.
Hate is hate no matter how you look at it, but remember American history when it mentioned hanging,burning, and firebombing Churches in the South.
Thereforth its natural for Blacks to resent or hate after what happened. There is many Blacks in the South who is affaid of Jim Crow or should I be more blunt? Whereas here in the North its a whole new game. We have learned how to express our anger or resentment. Regardless to if its being hostle or having pure hate, if it don't apply then let it fly.
Let me translate what I just stated...in other words if you did nothing wrong then why worrie about how another person acts. I don't believe that the hostle vibes was directed at you, but you are part of a group that started this racist and discriminating movement, and maybe you are just feeling guilty because of what you are seeing. In closing No its not because you are from the South.
I have to disagree once again. Maybe the people that were directly affected can have an attitude toward white people. They felt the sting... but today you have teenagers walking around with a chip on their shoulder about being black. They don't know the first thing about discrimination. What's their problem? They are angry at white people for slavery that was outlawed over 150 years ago (and it was white people that freed slaves). There's a lot of angry black young people that should let it fly and do something with their life instead of crying "I'm black so I can't succeed in society," which is how I and most white's see them. They don't try in life and are still blaming it on things that they happened over a hundred years ago. I'm not just talking about the south, I'm talking about out west too where I've lived for 10 years. I honestly think that blacks are the most racist people there are. They always cry "race" when things don't work or they don't get what they want. For example, I spent two years as a substitute teacher in middle and high schools. One day a black kid was acting up and I told him to sit down and get to work. His response? "It's because I'm black, you racist bitc h." I said no, it's because you are the only one out of your seat acting up. But he went to race. That's how so many black people are.
I have to disagree once again. Maybe the people that were directly affected can have an attitude toward white people. They felt the sting... but today you have teenagers walking around with a chip on their shoulder about being black. They don't know the first thing about discrimination. What's their problem? They are angry at white people for slavery that was outlawed over 150 years ago (and it was white people that freed slaves). There's a lot of angry black young people that should let it fly and do something with their life instead of crying "I'm black so I can't succeed in society," which is how I and most white's see them. They don't try in life and are still blaming it on things that they happened over a hundred years ago. I'm not just talking about the south, I'm talking about out west too where I've lived for 10 years. I honestly think that blacks are the most racist people there are. They always cry "race" when things don't work or they don't get what they want. For example, I spent two years as a substitute teacher in middle and high schools. One day a black kid was acting up and I told him to sit down and get to work. His response? "It's because I'm black, you racist bitc h." I said no, it's because you are the only one out of your seat acting up. But he went to race. That's how so many black people are.
Red Red, Hold it a second. passing the race card or blaming isn't the issue here on this site. I respect your post believe me, but the million dollor question is How can all of this horsechit change? Hell Yeah We hate the way that you whites mistreated us in the past since you want to say We cry Race. Now here we are in a reverse situation where Whites is crying about Blacks. Look at the kill of Affirmative Action, but you posting about Blacks crying race, and like I will continue to say Racism & Discrimination will live forever.
You all know it just like I do that whites do receive a far better education then Blacks. Lets take a reality look at what I just said. Most white kids that I went through high school with a Doctors,Lawyers,CEOS, and most of my Black school friends have a Associate or maybe a Bachelors, very very few I know made it to a Masters degree. During the 1950s an 1960s racism was alive and well, but doing that time zone Blacks was suffering the most, and doing that era was when whites begin to move away from Blacks.
So I must ask you forturnate ones who have left Detroit...since Detroit is so dangerous why wonder about if Detroit is safe or not? I do not submit long posts, but I am submitting this long post, and as a CURRENT inner-city resident I see things that you (NOW) Suburbianites don't see. That's why channels 2,4,7 sucks its news from the inner-city, or should I say the Black Community (That's Hype), and in most of these posts the message is don't go near or in Detroit. Now if that's not hyped...then tell me what is?
In closing I am NOT saying that all Blacks is perfectly nice, but not all is bad believe me. However I find that statements that suggest to come see the Tigers,Lions,or the Red Wings, and after the game get the hell out of Detroit a racist and discriminating post.
Affirmitive action was a racist agenda. Anything that gives one race a better chance at something solely based on their race is racist. I am very pleased it's gone and I hope it happens around the country. People should get positions and in college based on skill, not get extra points added to their test scores because their skin is black.
Whites receive better education than whites? Once again I point out that blacks make it that way. I have worked in education and see it first hand. Blacks getting equal opportunity and they don't want it. They don't care about education, instead they go to school and fight, goof off, not do their work, etc. Education is not instilled in them as being important at home. It starts at home. Most white peope teach their kids that education is important and we expect them to do well. Black kids aren't expected to do well.
My belief of why black kids don't care to do well in school and make something of themselves? Two main reasons among others....
1. Who they look up to - uneducated rappers and the like that can't speak decent English, don't have an education, etc. They make it "uncool" for blacks to be smart so many underachieve on purpose. Good black role models are out there but they choose to not look up to them.
2. Seventy percent, yes 70 percent, of black kids are born out of wedlock. Most don't have father's in their lives. Research shows that children that don't have father's active in their lives don't do as well as those that do. The prisons are filled with men that didn't have father's in their lives while growing up. Black women are left to try to raise all these hell-struck boys and they keep control of them.
My comment about go see a game and get the hell out of Detroit is one that most white suburbanites think. It's not safe for white people to be walking around the city of Detroit at night. You have to get out... that's all there is too it. It's too dangerous.
This is a very interesting topic. Although, I'm pretty sure the title of it is misleading at this point. It should probably have the word "racism" somewhere in it? Anyway, I had a few thoughts on what is being discussed and I have a few questions/comments I'd like to share:
And I guess I should preface what I say with the fact that I am a white male who lives in the suburbs and who grew up "Downriver." Also, I'm not quite savvy enough in this message board to know how to quote different things from different previous posts, so I'll be mostly paraphrasing what I can remember. Okay.
One thing I never understood was the..."bad feeling" that I get when I feel that a black person resents me just for the fact that I am white. RedWingsFan has basically talked about that in various ways (i.e., "chip on their shoulder", etc.) but I think it is at least a related phenomenon. BrotherWilliamX even mentioned it from his point of view (i.e., "of course blacks are going to resent what whites have done to them over the years" ...paraphrasing...) I guess I feel that it is sort of...I don't think I mean to say "unfair"...but something along those lines... that I should be made to feel guilty for something that my ancestors (actually, none of my direct ancestors on either side ever owned even one slave, but by "my ancestors" I mean "people who came before me who happen to have the same 'color' skin as me") decided to do a long time before I was even born. Although I never understood why I should bear the burden of original sin either...so I guess I can't complain too much? It would just be nice if we all started with a clean slate.
However, that brings me to my second question/comment. Is there already a clean slate? RedWingsFan is quick to point out that slavery ended about 150 years ago, however "slavery" wasn't the end of problems for African Americans. As recently as 50 years ago, there was de jure segregation (as opposed to the de facto segregation that Detroit has worse than any other major city in the country). Blacks and Whites were forced to use separate facilities and receive separate service from each other. And as the courts would rule, these were certainly not "equal." So then they tried to get "civil rights" going in this country, which certainly helped. However, you still had lots of people in power (gov't, and business) who were from the "old school" of racism and segregation who didn't want to employ or educate African Americans, just because. So they had to come up with another way to get Blacks back up to the pace of the rest of the country who hadn't been so heavily oppressed for so long. Affirmative Action essentially says that, if everything else is equal, you should opt for the minority before taking the white person.
Sorry for the long post, I'll continue in a new post...
I think Affirmative Action is sort of like another point for me. Maybe it's not a perfect system. Okay, it's far from perfect. But let's look at the facts for a minute. Pretend that you are a poor, black kid who lives in Detroit. Let's say that you grow up in a single parent household, and you have three other siblings. I think this is at least a fairly common scenario. Let's pretend that you want to succeed in school, and get a good job, and make a lot of money so that you can come back to your old neighborhood and help other kids who had to grow up the way you did, so that more kids can have a chance to succeed. But now let's say that you go to a really "bad" public school. Not only are the books out of date, and the roofs leaky, but it's dangerous to get to school, and it's dangerous INSIDE of your own school. You will probably have a hard time focusing on doing your homework and studying for tests when you're fearing for you safety in school and at home, and then when you're struggling to even have enough to eat at home, and helping to take care of your younger siblings while your mom is at her second job in the evening. But let's assume that you DO persevere and get a 3.5 GPA and you take all the college tests you need to take and you score well on them. And you submit your college application to U of M and other colleges in the area. Or, what the hell, to Ivy League schools, Notre Dame, UCLA, anywhere in the country. And let's say, that the same age as you, in nearby Grosse Point, is another kid, who doesn't really know what he wants to do with his life, who isn't even sure that he WANTS to go to college, but he knows that that's just what you're supposed to do after high school. He doesn't really NEED to go, or to even work because his family is well off enough for him to be "set" for life if he needed to be. He got similar grades and similar test scores to the kid from Detroit. He submits applications to all of the same schools. Neither kid even checks the box that asks for race, because...oh I dont know, it's been eliminated to make things more "fair." The schools see only the similar scores, and that one kid went to a school in Grosse Pointe, and the other went to a Detroit inner city high school. Every single time, these colleges would accept the white kid. His school is tougher, and usually produces high quality students, so he must be the better student.
I guess my point is that, no matter how hard some kids might try in these inner city schools, the deck is SO HEAVILY stacked against them, that it's literally not possible for some of them to succeed. Let's even assume that by some stroke of luck, they do accept this kid into a "good" school (although it's not likely), can his family even afford it? Even with scholarships, grants, and some student loans, there's a breaking point at which this family can't make it any more. The Grosse Pointe "example" kid does not have this obstacle to overcome. I think it's pretty clear that most Black kids get a worse education, and it's pretty naive to blame it on the students. They can't help where they go to school. So then it's harder to get a further education, which makes it harder to get a good job, which makes it harder to earn decent money, which makes it harder for people from within the community to improve the community, which makes it unlikely that the schools are going to get better, and the cycle perpetuates itself.
So I'll agree that Affirmative Action is not the best plan I've ever heard of in my life. But to get rid of it and not replace it with something better...to just get rid of it...is irresponsible. How can we not at least try to do SOMETHING to help those kids who need it the most?
But I also admit that, as a white person, I guess I do want it both ways. I want to see black people who live in the city get a fair chance at life and a good education and every other opportunity that white people get. At the same time, I don't think I should feel "guilty" for being white. I shouldn't be denied any opportunities just because of my skin color. I'm not sure that it's possible for me to have it both ways. I don't really have a better solution. At least not one that doesn't involve some philanthropist donating MILLIONS of dollars to inner city schools in Detroit and across the country and rebuilding the foundation of black education from the ground up. Everything else would follow. Or I guess the same thing could be achieved by raising the taxes on the richest 1% of the country by just a small amount...an amount that they wouldn't even miss. But of course, that would just be a silly idea...
I believe that people should get into college based on their test scores. Not on where they went to high school, how badly they need a degree or if they know what they want to major in. That's fair. If you do it any other way you will never have a fair system.
And you are right, you should never feel guilty for being white. Not at all, feel proud!
I believe we get out of life what we put into it. You create your own destiny. If you want to succeed in life you will, no matter what. I don't think those people need white people to come and rescue them. And even if we did they wouldn't appreciate it becuase they are so resentful and bitter. We have our own problems to deal with, let them deal with theirs.
In theory, I agree that people should be admitted into colleges based solely on grades and test scores. But that's only if you assume that all schools are exactly the same and that all kids have an equal chance to do well on those tests. The reality is that it's not even close to equal.
It's a fact that wealthier areas have more money to spend on education, and therefore their schools are going to be better. Those schools are going to better prepare their students to do well on tests, and their grades/test scores/college acceptances are going to reflect that. The black kids (and poor kids of any race, really) who have the misfortune of going to a school that does not have enough money to compete with the richer schools, are simply at a disadvantage before they even THINK about which college they would like to go to.
So, in that respect, I'm not so sure that "you create your own destiny." I'd like to believe that, but I'm just not so sure that that's how the world works. Everyone is dealt a different hand in life, and if a poor person and rich person each put forth the same amount of effort, the rich person is going to get significantly better returns on it.
Look at the numbers of how many kids go from high school to college. I haven't checked, but I assume you could find this statistic for most schools online somewhere. But I suspect private schools, in the wealthier suburbs, are going to have very close to 100% of their students attending college immediately after high school. Then pick ANY Detroit school. I guarantee that the percentage is going to be MUCH lower. Even my own high school, which is in Downriver, we are a very blue collar town, and I don't remember the percentage of how many of us went on to college, but I bet it was around 50%?
My point is: do kids at the rich, private school TRY that much harder than the Downriver school and/or the Detroit school? When you look at numbers that are consistently the same coming out of these schools, you can't POSSIBLY attribute it to the children in the school. It has to be the school itself, and the resources that are available to the school. If we start pumping more money into the poorer schools, and give them some time to catch up, THEN we can use test scores to determine college admission. But only when the playing field is leveled.
Also, by the wording in my post, I think this is more of a rich/poor issue, than a white/black issue. It just so happens that in this area of the country, our major city is SO predominantly black that a lot of people probably equate white = rich, and black = poor. I bet if we lived in some other metropolitan area, we'd be thinking at least a little differently.
In theory, I agree that people should be admitted into colleges based solely on grades and test scores. But that's only if you assume that all schools are exactly the same and that all kids have an equal chance to do well on those tests. The reality is that it's not even close to equal.
Not all kids are the same either!!!! You can't possibly judge them on race if you aren't willing to also sit down and get to know them, maybe we could have colleges look at which one is into the coolest hobbies? Or which one can bake the best brownies? We all come from different races, backgrounds, economic condtions... but to have all these equal for college it needs to be based on test scores and test scores alone. Not if someone does or doesn't have money, if they went to a poor school or a rich one, if they had parents that were involved in their education or teaching them about the value of an education or not, etc. NOBODY should have their test scores padded or be accepted to college because of the color of their skin - black or white! You have to EARN it just like everyone else did. Just because someone went to a good school or their parents had money DOESN'T mean that they didn't earn their grades! You seem to think that if they went to good schools then they didn't earn their grades. Same with going to bad schools, going to a bad school doesn't mean you can't earn an A! It doesn't mean you can't learn or achieve good grades! You get out of it what you put into it! No double standards. If blacks want to be seen as equals then they have to demand to be treated as equals. Affirmative action makes them less than equals and gives them a helping hand. To be an equal you have to earn it on merit, not from a step stool.
Things like Affirmative Action keep blacks down. It keeps them from trying to succeed and reach higher. It makes whites resentful because they get special treatment. If you want them to be seen as equals they have to earn what they get just like whites do. Only then will they be seen as equal. As long as they are getting special treatment to get jobs or into college they will not be seen as equals.
Not all kids are the same either!!!! You can't possibly judge them on race if you aren't willing to also sit down and get to know them, maybe we could have colleges look at which one is into the coolest hobbies? Or which one can bake the best brownies? We all come from different races, backgrounds, economic condtions... but to have all these equal for college it needs to be based on test scores and test scores alone. Not if someone does or doesn't have money, if they went to a poor school or a rich one, if they had parents that were involved in their education or teaching them about the value of an education or not, etc. NOBODY should have their test scores padded or be accepted to college because of the color of their skin - black or white! You have to EARN it just like everyone else did. Just because someone went to a good school or their parents had money DOESN'T mean that they didn't earn their grades! You seem to think that if they went to good schools then they didn't earn their grades. Same with going to bad schools, going to a bad school doesn't mean you can't earn an A! It doesn't mean you can't learn or achieve good grades! You get out of it what you put into it! No double standards. If blacks want to be seen as equals then they have to demand to be treated as equals. Affirmative action makes them less than equals and gives them a helping hand. To be an equal you have to earn it on merit, not from a step stool.
Things like Affirmative Action keep blacks down. It keeps them from trying to succeed and reach higher. It makes whites resentful because they get special treatment. If you want them to be seen as equals they have to earn what they get just like whites do. Only then will they be seen as equal. As long as they are getting special treatment to get jobs or into college they will not be seen as equals.
Affirmative Action was not created to keep blacks down, and if anything its purpose was to enforce equal rights. Moderator cut: personal - off topic
Also please tell me what special treatment is Blacks getting? and who are they getting this special treatment from? How can you tell someone to sit down and get to know a black person, and you are not doing what you are telling someone else to do?
When I decided to return to school (college) after being away from school 35 years. I entered college with a 4.0 GPA, and I dropped out of school 35 years ago. Now I have a GED,a Associates Degree in Human Services, and a Bachelors in Mental Health. In closing its amazing how most whites seem to think they know Blacks, and yet instead of helping all you read is racist posts.
Believe me there is more whites who need a education then Blacks, and throughout your entire post you have not mentioned that? Again not not post something that's not all twisted up with hate or discrimination, and maybe a solution will be found.
Let's not forget that Affirmative Action also helped women of all races. Do most men really give attractive women a fair shot as far as intelligence... NO. Not in my experience. We are constanly objectified. What about the little girls that want to be scientists? What provisions will be made for them in male dominated fields? But, people will cut their own foot off in order to make sure one race isn't placed above another. This is why the Metropolitan Detroit area is the cesspool of the midwest.
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Your Post is Nothing But BS Hype.
