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Affirmative Action was not created to keep blacks down, and if anything its purpose was to enforce equal rights.
As long as a group is getting special treatment (such as in Affirmative Action) they will never been seen as equal. I know that the liberal agenda has taught you that it is there to help you but really it does just the opposite.
See, I told you would get upset if the conversation continued. You make remarks about whites as well but I don't cry about you being banned. It's crazy. Why can't we have this discussion without people crying foul?
I won't respond to this anymore. We have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
As long as a group is getting special treatment (such as in Affirmative Action) they will never been seen as equal. I know that the liberal agenda has taught you that it is there to help you but really it does just the opposite.
See, I told you would get upset if the conversation continued. You make remarks about whites as well but I don't cry about you being banned. It's crazy. Why can't we have this discussion without people crying foul?
I won't respond to this anymore. We have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
You damn RIGHT I get upset whenever I read where the blame is being shifted. That's normal human reaction RedWingsFan, and I can't see why is it so hard for you to accept and realize that. Listen Red, Why don't you offer a solution to rebuilding Detroit,especially since you are the one who seem to be b****ing about the ghetto neighborhoods, and other negative problems of the inner-city?
So what you don't live in Detroit any longer, but just because you moved don't mean others would hate Detroit, and if they are thinking about moving here..its their money. You will never admit how much your thinking pattern is confused, and I am here to inform you that your hate & bitter shows in your messages.
All I am trying to say is if you don't have nothing good to say about Detroit don't vent your negativity at all...plain and simple. Living in Detroit is how a individual wants to live, and don't all whites or blacks hate each other. The reason for that is in SOME areas of the city there is Whites who are poor like Blacks, and in these kind of neighborhoods we all get along. At times I go down to the Joe to a WWE match, in CoAmerica Park or Ford field all races come together to watch a game, and the ONLY time something bad happens
it be people from the suburbs the majority of the time.
So in closing come to Detroit to see for yourself, and remember you can't always believe what you read.
RedWingsFan, my point about the kids in the poorer schools isn't that they can't earn A's. I think it's just that the A's from those schools don't mean as much to colleges as A's from a prestigious school mean. Without Affirmative Action, that's exactly what goes on. I wouldn't doubt that it happened during Affirmative Action either, but it undeniably goes on.
And as far as test scores, I assume we are talking about ACTs/SATs/College Entrance Exams, correct? My point was that the richer schools better prepare students for these types of tests. I contend that no matter how hard a student works in a very poor, inner city school, he will not be able to achieve as high of a score on those tests as an average kid at the richest, most prestigious suburban school. I don't think either of these facts can be denied. That is why I'm saying that we need some kind of system in place to give those disadvantaged kids (of any race) a little bit more of a fair shot at success.
And Brother WilliamX, there is another thread on this forum that is titled something to the effect of "What can we do to fix Detroit?" so that is probably the more appropriate place for that line of questioning as you mentioned in your last post. But, from what I can tell, people aren't currently flooding out of Detroit because of racial tension. Yes, many MANY whites fled because of that reason after the riots in the late '60s (and I mean, isn't that pretty understandable that people would leave after race riots? One of the most basic human desires is for safety). But currently, people are flooding out of not only Detroit, but the whole metro area, and most of the state actually. And it is for economic reasons. People can't afford to live here any more. And it's getting worse. Detroit has had it's "other" problems (racism, etc.) for years, and it managed to..."thrive"?...despite them. But now that the Big 3 are on the way out, so are all the jobs, and consequently, all the people.
And just a little note to both of you (RedWingsFan and Brother WilliamX), I think this is a very interesting topic. And to be honest, I think our world would be a better place if people were able to openly talk about race, and discrimination, and other problems with each other. It encourages understanding and hopefully will lead to some sort of solution to problems that have been plaguing mankind for many, many, many years. An open dialogue is a great thing, and this is a great place for it.
However, both of you at times (and understandbly so, as this is a "controversial" topic...) can get quite frustrated and even angry at each other, and it really comes across in your word choice and tone. I hope that each of your goals would be to gain some sort of understanding of the other "side" that you never had before, and/or to help the other person do the same. I am not trying to belittle anything that either of you have said thusfar, but I would ask both of you to please try to be kind to each other. It's perfectly fine to "attack" another person's point of view, but not to attack the person. At this point of the two of your conversation, it's pretty easy to figure out what types of things are going to offend the other one, right? Just try to be mindful of that, so that we can keep this thread moving in a positive direction. Thanks
Honestly Brother William you've lost it. I lived in detroit for 35 years and now i'm 40 i live in Washington D.C. In South East. I can tell you now that you are beyong lost. When i was growing up we were so poor we didn't have a house we had to live in my dads office work building. We weren't supposed to but we did. If my dads job found out we'd wouldve been thrown out. We didn't have covers or a bed. I was 21 before i ever actually slept in a bed and i mean that. My parents had five kids and all of us had to share one piece of chicken or one egg. I went to redford High School i had a ton of friends but i could never invite them over because we lived in an office. So i found myself over at my friends house and they were like "we let you over but you don't let us over WTF?" i felt bad but that's how it was. I had my Jaw broken at 14. Luckily it was fixed. In all my years i've only seen 6 men be killed. 4 In Detroit 2 in Chicago. The one in Chicago was the most horrric. It was night time I was riding the bus to get to a friends on the southside. one Car pulled up and another car pulled up rolled down it's window and shot the man in the car. They took the car and drove off. I could list them all but that's not my point. PM if you wanna know the rest. I winded up going to College at Michigan State where I had my 2nd racist encounter. There was this white woman and she was a ho. She had men in her dorm all the time. I used to chill with her. She accused me off stealing her money. So i told her i didn't. I went back to my dorm you know she called 911 on me. Then the police come knocking on my dorm door talking about " We know you got that girls money."
I said no i don't she be having men in her room every day. One of the cops lifted up his eyebrow and looked toward the direction her dorm was. After i said that i shut the door. And they never bothered me again. Detroits suburbs are like what the south used to be today. Before college I worked in a damn potato shop in dearborn peeling potato's. I used to peel the potato's but the white manager wanted to promote me to manager. So there was this white girl that was also peeling potato's. She asked the boss why you gonna promote a N**** instead of me. I was mad but i held my ground. The boss started to explain that i did better work than she did. She started calling me all kinds off names a monkey, a ******, everything in the book. Then she made a death threat that if she ever saw me out in dearborn again she lynch me. Racism was really what forced me to move out of michigan. Them white people in detroits suburbs want to be the boss of the blacks. Like right now on TV you see blacks rapping and stuff. White people don't care that we do negative stuff as long as we don't start to control them and beat them mentally. They don't care how many people we kill as long as we aren't doing anything to them. and that mentality promted me to go to D.C. Right now i work for the government i can't say which but yall know we gotta be secretive.
RedWingsFan, my point about the kids in the poorer schools isn't that they can't earn A's. I think it's just that the A's from those schools don't mean as much to colleges as A's from a prestigious school mean. Without Affirmative Action, that's exactly what goes on. I wouldn't doubt that it happened during Affirmative Action either, but it undeniably goes on.
And as far as test scores, I assume we are talking about ACTs/SATs/College Entrance Exams, correct? My point was that the richer schools better prepare students for these types of tests. I contend that no matter how hard a student works in a very poor, inner city school, he will not be able to achieve as high of a score on those tests as an average kid at the richest, most prestigious suburban school. I don't think either of these facts can be denied. That is why I'm saying that we need some kind of system in place to give those disadvantaged kids (of any race) a little bit more of a fair shot at success.
And Brother WilliamX, there is another thread on this forum that is titled something to the effect of "What can we do to fix Detroit?" so that is probably the more appropriate place for that line of questioning as you mentioned in your last post. But, from what I can tell, people aren't currently flooding out of Detroit because of racial tension. Yes, many MANY whites fled because of that reason after the riots in the late '60s (and I mean, isn't that pretty understandable that people would leave after race riots? One of the most basic human desires is for safety). But currently, people are flooding out of not only Detroit, but the whole metro area, and most of the state actually. And it is for economic reasons. People can't afford to live here any more. And it's getting worse. Detroit has had it's "other" problems (racism, etc.) for years, and it managed to..."thrive"?...despite them. But now that the Big 3 are on the way out, so are all the jobs, and consequently, all the people.
And just a little note to both of you (RedWingsFan and Brother WilliamX), I think this is a very interesting topic. And to be honest, I think our world would be a better place if people were able to openly talk about race, and discrimination, and other problems with each other. It encourages understanding and hopefully will lead to some sort of solution to problems that have been plaguing mankind for many, many, many years. An open dialogue is a great thing, and this is a great place for it.
However, both of you at times (and understandbly so, as this is a "controversial" topic...) can get quite frustrated and even angry at each other, and it really comes across in your word choice and tone. I hope that each of your goals would be to gain some sort of understanding of the other "side" that you never had before, and/or to help the other person do the same. I am not trying to belittle anything that either of you have said thusfar, but I would ask both of you to please try to be kind to each other. It's perfectly fine to "attack" another person's point of view, but not to attack the person. At this point of the two of your conversation, it's pretty easy to figure out what types of things are going to offend the other one, right? Just try to be mindful of that, so that we can keep this thread moving in a positive direction. Thanks
Thanks Soye for bringing my awareness up concerning the other thread, and I was just asking the question to the negative posts and replies.
Congratulations on proving Brother X's point Red wing fan. You posted a link in another forum that "supposedly" had accurate information on the white flight. Stormfront.org is a White Pride site with extremely racial prejudice. Statistics can be skewed to prove any point. I grew up in Detroit (Chopin-Mcgraw) and am Polish as can be. I love Detroit in all of its faults and victories.
I was discriminated against all the way till the end of high school. Majority African American middle school and Majority Arab high school, and I am still not nearly as fearful and or prejudice as your family. I lived the role reversal of a lifetime and am so greatful I did. The experiences of my younger year taught me so much in the way of public relations. I have been beaten up for being white, spit on for being white, robbed for being white, and still I carry on without ever holding a grudge about anybody.
After I moved into a suburb of Detroit is when I returned to Detroit to study "street pharmacist" Being white in the burbs (Dearborn) I was a great liason to the richer whities in the metro area. I sold so much pot and ecstacy to the private schools I must have set a record. Four convictions of trafficing and distribution, but I didn't start till I left Detroit. Even though I had everything going for me the urge to purge was too great. So yes I came from the burbs with a wad of cash to fuel the drug trade in the city. After high school ended I got my first charge, it cost me $25,000 in scholarships because of the HEA Drug Act. Even though I had a 3.8 GPA and a 36 on my ACT I couldn't afford to go to school.
It seems as though you love statistics Red Wing fan so check out the United states overall progression of cultural demographics. You will see, (careful this maybe scary) but the U.S. is changing its majority to Hispanic and African American probably by 2030. Several classes (including statistics) taught me that eventually whites will be the minority. Their is two options for you, open your eyes and see the future of America, or start a compound in the middle of North Dakota because in reality 20 years from now you won't be able to find a major city (100,000 people or more) where you will lead the pack.
Man oh man Mikeg, That was the mostful posts I ever read on this site, and I am thankful that you proven the fact that its two sides to the coin. Its a sad situation even when people in your own race discriminate or dislike you. Which brings about another point to the matter, and the point is something is wrong with that Picture. Hey MikeG, I like your style, due to the fact that you have posted the real damn deal, and believe me many on here hates the truth like you just told. To You others...Mikeg just proved that issues happen in ALL races, and I suggest that you don't judge the messager..but listen to the message.
You guys are killing me. I am potentially moving to MI, so this thread caught my eye.
I am your typical white guy from the south. We are always held up as the standard for racism.
I have got to get up on a soapbox here. The private college I graduated from in Mississippi in 92 now has a 37% minority enrollment (30% of that is black). The church I have gone to for 10 years in Atlanta has a black pastor and a growing black membership... From downtown to the suburbs, Atlanta has a great diversity of people. We still have our problems but the south is learning to live and work together.
For example, look at Pickering. He was a Bush choice for filling a judges slot. White guy that the "progressive" liberals painted as a racist. His primary defenders? - a majority of black leaders in south Mississippi that know him as a long time friend and a fair judge.
You guys are going to wake up one day and realize the shoe is now on the other foot in a number of ways. I hope for your sake that doesn't happen.
i am updating you on LA figuires as of 2005
los angeles 49.9% hispanic,9.1% black,9.5%asian
Quote:
Originally Posted by soyezheureux
This whole conversation seems to be on the verge of taking a turn from bad to worse. I guess the one questions I have for the original poster is, what do you mean by "the hype isn't true"? Your post seemed to focus on two points. 1. That Detroit has a very diverse population, and so does every other major city. and 2. That Detroit is just about as safe as any other city.
Well, as far as the "most heavy mixed race population", it's just not true. We happen to be on a forum connected a site called "city-data.com" According to this site, here is a breakdown of Detroit's racial makeup, compared to a major city in the East, West, South, and MidWest:
Detroit: Black-81.6%, White-10.5%, Hispanic-5.0%, 2 or more races-2.3%, Other-2.5%
NYC: White-35%, Hispanic-27%, Black-26.6%, Chinese-4.5%, Asian Indian-2.1%, 2 or more races-4.9%, Other-13.4%
Los Angeles: Hispanic-46.5%, White-29.7%, Black-11.2%, Filipino-2.7%, Korean-2.5%, 2 or more races-5.2%, Other-25.7%
Houston: Hispanic-37.4%, White-30.8%, Black-25.3%, 2 or more races-3.1%, Other-16.5%
Chicago: Black-36.8%, White-31.3%, Hispanic-26%, 2 or more races-2.9%, Other-13.6%
To say that Detroit is racially diverse, is simply not true. You can reproduce this chart that I did for pretty much large city in the country and get similar results. Try it.
But on to the second point, the one about crime. That one is even MORE untrue. Again, using the same website, and the same 5 cities, I looked up murders per year, murders per 100,000 people (to make the numbers easier to compare to each other), and city-data.com's "crime index" which states that the higher the number, the more unsafe the city is, with the U.S. average being a crime index of 325.2 The information was during the year of 2005. Here is what I found:
Detroit: 354 murders (37.2 per 100,000), Crime Index=925.1
NYC: 539 murders (6.7 per 100,000), Crime Index=275.2
Los Angeles: 489 murders (13.2 per 100,000) Crime Index=402.3
Houston: 334 murders (17.1 per 100,000) Crime Index=655.8
Chicago: 446 murders (15.4 per 100,000) Crime Index=565.2
and even though I assume you were joking about two of the cities on your list...
Beverly Hills, CA: 1 murder (3 per 100,000) Crime Index=261.7
And West Bloomfield doesnt even have a "crime chart" on its page, which means that it's crime data isn't significant enough to warrant one.
Go to city-data.com, and search for any city you want, big cities, white metro Detroit suburbs, anything. I don't think you'll find a less safe city in the U.S. (unless perhaps St. Louis?).
Diversity and crime are not "hype" about Detroit. They are undeniably true. Before I read this thread, I thought the "hype" was going to be about the lack of jobs, the failing economy, the bleak future outlook, or other reasons that are making Michigan the #1 state in the country as far as people moving out. But those things are true also. It's not just Detroit that is a terrible place to try to make a living a raise a family. It has nothing to do with race or crime. Even the lily-white, relatively safe suburbs are a bad place to be. It's because of the economy, and the fact that in the next decade it won't be any better (and could very possibly be worse.) It is going to be a VERY slow process to get back on track, and we haven't even BEGUN to even think of a way to start.
hello, I am a 21 year-old African American male that grew up on the East Side of Detroit. 2 locations until I was about 16; Kelly and Morang by Denby High School close to Harper Woods, and the Charlevoix and Pennsylvania area. Both very bad areas. At the age of 15/16 I moved to West Bloomfield. The fact that you compare Detroit to West Bloomfield is ridiculous. I am so happy that my little brother attends West Bloomfield schools and are around good families and kids.
As far as being a great place for minorities to mix, mingle, etc. Thats a joke! If you are considering the Metro Detroit Area yes we have dense populations of various minorities and immigrants alike. However, if you think 84% of a large US city being Black as being a good mix, you are sadly mistaken. It is a shame that Orchard Lake and 14 Mile in West Bloomfiled is more commercially successful than Jefferson and Randoulph in Downtown Detroit.
I love Detroit more than anything, i truly love the city. I am moving to Chicago after graduation from MSU to begin my career in Finance and I really cant wait to live in a true city. Detroit has so much potential...but at this point that is all it has. At one point Detroit was a world class city and it is true that "white flight" has directl caused the current Detroit. That is no question...Detroit is so bad right now because of the lack on investment and interest in the city and its downtown. Compuware moving its HQ from Farmington Hills to Campus Martius (downtown) is a good start, and hopefully others will follow.
Additionally, the crime in Detroit is terrible, so is the segregation. Living in West Bloomfield was the most diverse my living experience have gotten. There are White, Jewish, Chaldean, Indian, Polish, and African Americans all on my block in an affluent neighborhood. I am sorry to say it but I would NEVER start a family in Detroit. There are good POCKETS: Indian Village, Sherwood Forest, Boston Edison, etc. They have some of the nicest homes I have ever seen; much better than the newer homes in West Bloomfiled/Farmington...HOWEVER...they are POCKETS, meaning that once you leave your little bubble you are in trouble. Moreover, those from outside the bubble can easily access you and your home. My grandmother has a beautiful home on West Outer Drive and she was mugged 6 times, yes 6 times before she moved. Who wants to pay $350k for a home and have to deal w/ that BS? Let alone raise a child.]
I just felt as if my experiences w/ Detroit and the area would be helpful. Living both in the hood for most of my life and one of the most affluent areas in the country, let alone Detroit, later. Once again I am moving to Chicago, but I am only 21 and wish to move back to Detroit later into my career. I sincerely hope that the city "has it's act together in 5-10 yeas", but I wont hold my breath.
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We are glad you left...
but the U.S. is changing its majority to Hispanic and African American probably by 2030. Several classes (including statistics) taught me that eventually whites will be the minority. Their is two options for you, open your eyes and see the future of America, or start a compound in the middle of North Dakota because in reality 20 years from now you won't be able to find a major city (100,000 people or more) where you will lead the pack.
Go Restaurantmikeg Go
