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Old 10-21-2012, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,095 posts, read 5,546,038 times
Reputation: 3351

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Nobody is choosing to not take responsibility (whatever that means???)

BUT on the one hand, you assert people are all on the same playing field with the "make wise food choices" message but on the other hand you assert people predisposed to obesity have to try harder to remain thin. It's the "trying harder" part a lot of normally not overweight people don't understand.

If it were as easy as you implied "adapting to their dietary needs", like flipping a switch, there wouldn't be too many overweight people.
It's not EASY for anybody. We are surrounded by sugary, fatty foods, and in the US portions are HUGE. Only a small percentage can blame it on genetics/metabolism problems, but so many use this as a reason/excuse. Some blame it on having an extra large appetite. Nope. People overeat for emotional reasons - boredom, comfort, anger, stress. Nobody eats ice cream or chocolate because they are hungry or have a huge appetite. Many claim fast food is cheaper than healthy food. No, it isn't.

If you aren't motivated you won't do it. Looking sexy in a bikini is not sufficient motivation.
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,329 posts, read 93,761,592 times
Reputation: 17831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
Blaming obesity on genetics is an excuse to remain obese. Go to a buffet restaurant and see who is eating what - the obese people skip the salads and veg - unless they are topped by mountains of cheese.
No it is not an excuse. It's a driver. Same with alcoholism.
No one is advocating remaining obese. It is unhealthy to be obese. What is also unhealthy is perpetuating messages that obese people are obese because they make stupid decisions. And like you wrote, 95% or so of overweight people who try to remain thin fail. Must be something more than poor decisions. Those people who have failed for years would be wise to consider weight loss surgery. Take the need for will power out of the equation.

People aren't fat because they go to buffets. They go to buffets because they're fat.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,095 posts, read 5,546,038 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
No it is not an excuse. It's a driver. Same with alcoholism.
No one is advocating remaining obese. It is unhealthy to be obese. What is also unhealthy is perpetuating messages that obese people are obese because they make stupid decisions. And like you wrote, 95% or so of overweight people who try to remain thin fail. Must be something more than poor decisions. Those people who have failed for years would be wise to consider weight loss surgery. Take the need for will power out of the equation.

People aren't fat because they go to buffets. They go to buffets because they're fat.
They fail to keep weight off because once they hit their goal they go back to eating the same way that made them obese/overweight to begin with. They stop exercising. Boom.

You don't have to be THIN to be healthy and fit.

A healthy relationship with food is the answer. It's not the enemy and it's not the thing to run to for pleasure/comfort, etc.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:07 AM
 
10,746 posts, read 26,018,824 times
Reputation: 16033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
So I am wrong? Despite what you've been trained to think, science and peer reviewed data back up my posts.

Well, I'm not.

It's about making choices.

You choose to be obese or choose not to be obese. It's all up to you. Blaming your mother, father, grandmother, stress, work, kids, spouse, lack of time, lack of money, lack of knowledge, lack of whatever you want to say..it's all a choice.

No one forces anyone to shove anything in their mouth...they choose every bite they take. It's just easier to lay blame on someone else.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:12 AM
 
10,746 posts, read 26,018,824 times
Reputation: 16033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
No it is not an excuse. It's a driver. Same with alcoholism.
No one is advocating remaining obese. It is unhealthy to be obese. What is also unhealthy is perpetuating messages that obese people are obese because they make stupid decisions. And like you wrote, 95% or so of overweight people who try to remain thin fail. Must be something more than poor decisions. Those people who have failed for years would be wise to consider weight loss surgery. Take the need for will power out of the equation.

People aren't fat because they go to buffets. They go to buffets because they're fat.

Wrong.

They continue to be fat because they choose to go to buffets, they choose to eat 5 plates full of greasy, high calorie, high fat foods. They are fat because of what and where they choose to eat.

Smokers are smokers because they choose to continue to smoke. Drinkers are drinkers because they choose to continue to drink. ex smokers and ex drinkers became exes because they chose to give up that behavior.

it's not rocket science.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:39 AM
 
4,096 posts, read 6,216,301 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
People who are obese are not following the food pyramid. That is the problem.
And how do you know that? Yes they actually are. This is where the endless uncontrollable cravings kick in, when they follow the carb loaded food pyramid. That was my point.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:49 AM
 
4,096 posts, read 6,216,301 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post
Well, it worked for my ds15!

That was one chubby kid---and spoiled rotten. This year, we live out of the bus route district. Ok, I do drive him to school in the morning, its about 1.9 miles, just to make sure he gets there. But, he walks it home. And, I got sick of him pigging out at the school cafeteria, spending $15-$20/day!

So, I put a daily limit on his school cafeteria spending. I don't care if he spends it all on junk, he's limited in quantity. Well, the combination of eat less and walk more----he's lost about 15 pounds since school started. No fancy gyms, no diet consultations, etc, which cost more than we can afford and have me running all over town, just Eat less Move more!

Now, lets all think about this, hmmm, eat less, move more? Surely there must be some connection to weight loss?

Also, he was pre-diabetic, blood sugars around 130+. Now, he's about 110. Oh, and he sleeps through the night. Wonder, could there be a connection?
And that is wonderful that you have intervened at an age where you can help control what he eats and he is complying. Unfortunately so many people never had that help and learned to eat all the wrong foods that kick in uncontrollable cravings from a high carb loaded diet. And what's worse they don't even know that it is high carb that is doing it. And what's even worse is that it's very fashionable now to dump on the overweight. This issue is much like blaming the alcoholic for the disease. Yes they have to choose to stop but they have to know it and realize what to stop first.

People who are not affected by high carbs don't understand it, the same way that people that are not affected by alcohol do not understand. So disparaging them doesn't help, it only worsens the situation.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,329 posts, read 93,761,592 times
Reputation: 17831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim in FL View Post
Well, I'm not.

It's about making choices.

You choose to be obese or choose not to be obese. It's all up to you. Blaming your mother, father, grandmother, stress, work, kids, spouse, lack of time, lack of money, lack of knowledge, lack of whatever you want to say..it's all a choice.

No one forces anyone to shove anything in their mouth...they choose every bite they take. It's just easier to lay blame on someone else.
You're right. Overweight people want to be overweight.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,780,434 times
Reputation: 20198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayekaye View Post
And how do you know that? Yes they actually are. This is where the endless uncontrollable cravings kick in, when they follow the carb loaded food pyramid. That was my point.
When you give in to those cravings, you are no longer following the food pyramid.

That food pyramid is not intended to be followed by people who are trying to -lose- weight. It's intended to be followed by people who are healthy, of a moderate weight range, and who want to stay that way.

If you're trying to -lose- weight, you need to make adjustments, until your intake is less than your output, for a certain period of time. And then, once you've reached your goal, you do NOT return to whatever made you fat in the first place - instead, you explore what allows you to maintain your present weight, which was your goal weight. And you do that, indefinitely, until hormones or circumstances require that you make another adjustment (such as, being bedridden after surgery for a month, thus losing your daily exercise routine. Such as, periodic age-related hormone changes.)
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:38 AM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,780,434 times
Reputation: 20198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayekaye View Post
And that is wonderful that you have intervened at an age where you can help control what he eats and he is complying. Unfortunately so many people never had that help and learned to eat all the wrong foods that kick in uncontrollable cravings from a high carb loaded diet. And what's worse they don't even know that it is high carb that is doing it. And what's even worse is that it's very fashionable now to dump on the overweight. This issue is much like blaming the alcoholic for the disease. Yes they have to choose to stop but they have to know it and realize what to stop first.

People who are not affected by high carbs don't understand it, the same way that people that are not affected by alcohol do not understand. So disparaging them doesn't help, it only worsens the situation.
EVERYONE is affected by high carbs. Cravings aren't part of some exclusive club. Sugar is a carb, and overeating sugar often leads to craving more. Overeating carbs often leads to craving more. Regardless of who you are. EVERYONE has the capacity to experience this.

And - most thinking adults realize this little math gem:

IF (I eat extra mashed potatoes with butter and sour cream)
and IF (I eat a slice of apple pie with vanilla ice cream on the side)
and IF (I include a hunk of bread with my meatloaf and mash dinner)

THEN IF (I later crave more bread)
AND IF (this happens regularly)
AND IF (I notice I'm gaining weight regularly)
I CONCLUDE (that I probably shouldn't eat more bread.)

HOWEVER:
IF I CHOOSE (to eat more bread anyway)

I SHOULDN'T BE SURPRISED (if I keep gaining weight)
NOR SHOULD I BLAME IT ON GENETICS
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