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Perhaps someone familiar with this practice could help me. I would like some direction about doing vegan keyo. (Don't want to argue about being vegan, please; let's assume that's a given?) I know vegan keto exists; there are dozens of Facebook pages devoted to it, but the recipes seem to be filled with odd items which I do not care to eat. I find it kind of tiresome.
Keto is high healthy fat/low carb, correct? But vegan diets are based on rice, beans, tortillas--all basically carbs. In my current diet the healthy fats are avocados, walnuts, olive oil and non-dairy margarine.
What am I doing wrong and how can I change to keto while avoiding animal products?
I obviously do not know what you like but out of the list of allowed foods, I would think you could come up with something.
Keto on its own prohibits a lot of foods, add vegan on top of that and the list is even more limited.
Quote:
Allowed vegan foods on Keto
Vegan “meats” — tempeh, tofu, seitan, and other high-protein, low-carb vegan “meats”
Mushrooms — shiitake, king oyster, lion’s mane, etc.
Leafy greens – spinach, kale, etc.
Above ground vegetables – broccoli, cauliflower, zucchini, etc.
High fat “dairy” – unsweetened coconut-based yogurt, coconut cream, vegan cheeses, etc.
Nuts and seeds – pistachios, almonds, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, etc.
Avocado and berries – raspberries, blackberries, and other low glycemic impact berries
Fermented foods — Natto, sauerkraut, kim chi, etc.
Sea vegetables — dulse, bladderwack, kelp, etc.
Sweeteners – stevia, erythritol, monk fruit, and other low-carb sweeteners >
Other fats – coconut oil, olive oil, MCT oil, avocado oil, etc.
If I remember correctly you said you wanted to lose 10 lbs? That is not a lot bit I think you are doing it more for health? You do not need to keep the carbs that low, 50 per day is perfectly acceptable.
Even though legumes are not part of Keto I would go ahead and include stuff such as beans in moderate quantities, I would also include root vegetables and plenty of nuts. Who cares about the calories, it will never amount to much anyway, especially if you are doing OMAD. The reason legumes are not allowed with Keto is because of the carb count but in reality, these carbs do not come from sugar which is the real demon. They are complex carbs and do not generally cause blood sugar spikes which is what can take you out of ketosis. These foods would open up way more possibilities and provide needed nutrients and fiber. The same applies to carbs from vegetables.
Flax meal, Almond meal and coconut flour can be used to make low carb bread, crackers, wraps etc.
You have to think of recipes that you can make from the above ingredients. The internet has tons of recipes. My wife made some curry dish with veggies and coconut milk yesterday that looked pretty darned good. It included rice so I only tasted it but vegan does not need to be bland at all. She is a pescatarian (mostly vegetarian) but does eat dairy and eggs.
My thing is that I eat as much as I want to fill in my hunger and back it up with a lot of and some red tea. However, in all honesty, it's all about the mind and how you can control it. Will Power!
If I remember correctly you said you wanted to lose 10 lbs? That is not a lot bit I think you are doing it more for health? You do not need to keep the carbs that low, 50 per day is perfectly acceptable.
Even though legumes are not part of Keto I would go ahead and include stuff such as beans in moderate quantities, I would also include root vegetables and plenty of nuts. Who cares about the calories, it will never amount to much anyway, especially if you are doing OMAD. The reason legumes are not allowed with Keto is because of the carb count but in reality, these carbs do not come from sugar which is the real demon. They are complex carbs and do not generally cause blood sugar spikes which is what can take you out of ketosis. These foods would open up way more possibilities and provide needed nutrients and fiber. The same applies to carbs from vegetables.
While I agree and think it's better to not eat keto than to eat keto, not eating keto is still not eating keto. Unless you're in ketosis, you're not eating keto. You're just eating low carb. The actual keto diet is 90% fat, 6% protein, 4% carbs. That's the actual therapeutic diet developed for use as a protocol for managing seizures. It's not a good diet for most people to follow. Too little protein. Hence the modified 75% fat, 20% protein, 5% carb variation of "keto." Some people will actually be in ketosis although many will not and hence are not actually eating keto. The excess protein for the body to turn into glucose and the limited amount of energy the brain can derive from fatty acids make the production of ketone bodies unnecessary as an energy source. Going above 5%, however, that some quickly drops to none. They're really just low carb diets using the keto name because it's popular and people like fad diets.
At the end of the day, using macros is really a stupid way to determine if one is actually eating keto nowadays. There's too much variation in an individual's capacity to produce glucose via gluconeogenesis, time of feeding, caloric deficiency or excess, etc. There's a much better thing to look at if you're actually trying to be in ketsosis. Ketone bodies. They're easily measured.
While I agree and think it's better to not eat keto than to eat keto, not eating keto is still not eating keto. Unless you're in ketosis, you're not eating keto. You're just eating low carb. The actual keto diet is 90% fat, 6% protein, 4% carbs. That's the actual therapeutic diet developed for use as a protocol for managing seizures. It's not a good diet for most people to follow. Too little protein. Hence the modified 75% fat, 20% protein, 5% carb variation of "keto." Some people will actually be in ketosis although many will not and hence are not actually eating keto. The excess protein for the body to turn into glucose and the limited amount of energy the brain can derive from fatty acids make the production of ketone bodies unnecessary as an energy source. Going above 5%, however, that some quickly drops to none. They're really just low carb diets using the keto name because it's popular and people like fad diets.
At the end of the day, using macros is really a stupid way to determine if one is actually eating keto nowadays. There's too much variation in an individual's capacity to produce glucose via gluconeogenesis, time of feeding, caloric deficiency or excess, etc. There's a much better thing to look at if you're actually trying to be in ketsosis. Ketone bodies. They're easily measured.
The percentage of macros are not set in stone. Keto is 20 to 50g per day, so that will determine the macro percentages. I do (about) 50g per day but I am not strict keto, so If I were to choose a macro range it would be 75/20/5 more or less. I have yet to ever track a macro, I do lazy keto. I stay away from high carb foods, try to keep protein moderate and fat high. I'm pretty sure I routinely go over the 20% protein. That is just me. The OP, which is the one I was responding to, is a vegan and has way more limited protein options than me. For her, I don't see a need for a very strict keto diet. She doesn't have a lot of weight to lose. She was a cancer patient which is why I think she's looking at keto. Vegan keto seems very difficult to do to me. As far as being a good diet to follow, you must be speaking out of ignorance, keto is VERY healthy which is another reason so many people are doing it. It is NOT healthy if you do it incorrectly and eat nothing but meat and cheese.
For the OP, if she is reading this, I would not try to limit carbs as much as a strict keto diet does. If she does this she will be left with very few options on what to eat. Since you are cutting carbs you do need to up the healthy fat intake. The reason for this is for calories, you need them for energy to go about your day. The important thing is to cut sugar and refined carbs completely out. The "whites" are what they are known as. White flour, potatoes, white rice, corn and sugar of course. I myself do not consume grains but I do it for blood sugar control, not weight loss. I do eat beans since they don't make me spike, I do not eat large amounts. Beans provide a good source of protein. I don't need it but the OP may need it. So yes, I would agree that for the OP it may be better to just do low carb and not specifically keto.
The percentage of macros are not set in stone. Keto is 20 to 50g per day, so that will determine the macro percentages. I do (about) 50g per day but I am not strict keto, so If I were to choose a macro range it would be 75/20/5 more or less. I have yet to ever track a macro, I do lazy keto. I stay away from high carb foods, try to keep protein moderate and fat high. I'm pretty sure I routinely go over the 20% protein. That is just me. The OP, which is the one I was responding to, is a vegan and has way more limited protein options than me. For her, I don't see a need for a very strict keto diet. She doesn't have a lot of weight to lose. She was a cancer patient which is why I think she's looking at keto. Vegan keto seems very difficult to do to me. As far as being a good diet to follow, you must be speaking out of ignorance, keto is VERY healthy which is another reason so many people are doing it. It is NOT healthy if you do it incorrectly and eat nothing but meat and cheese.
For the OP, if she is reading this, I would not try to limit carbs as much as a strict keto diet does. If she does this she will be left with very few options on what to eat. Since you are cutting carbs you do need to up the healthy fat intake. The reason for this is for calories, you need them for energy to go about your day. The important thing is to cut sugar and refined carbs completely out. The "whites" are what they are known as. White flour, potatoes, white rice, corn and sugar of course. I myself do not consume grains but I do it for blood sugar control, not weight loss. I do eat beans since they don't make me spike, I do not eat large amounts. Beans provide a good source of protein. I don't need it but the OP may need it. So yes, I would agree that for the OP it may be better to just do low carb and not specifically keto.
I'm reading it, I can assure you. I don't do bread and I don't do sugar, even the artificial kind, except for stevia. Giving up corn, rice and potatoes (and I assume, pasta) is another matter.
Giving up corn, rice and potatoes (and I assume, pasta) is another matter.
I can't eat any of these and keep my carbs under 20.
Just 1/2 cup of corn or rice is 20 carbs. A medium potato is 27 carbs.
Sometimes my wife makes herself new potatoes. I eat one!
The percentage of macros are not set in stone. Keto is 20 to 50g per day, so that will determine the macro percentages. I do (about) 50g per day but I am not strict keto, so If I were to choose a macro range it would be 75/20/5 more or less. I have yet to ever track a macro, I do lazy keto. I stay away from high carb foods, try to keep protein moderate and fat high. I'm pretty sure I routinely go over the 20% protein. That is just me. The OP, which is the one I was responding to, is a vegan and has way more limited protein options than me. For her, I don't see a need for a very strict keto diet. She doesn't have a lot of weight to lose. She was a cancer patient which is why I think she's looking at keto. Vegan keto seems very difficult to do to me. As far as being a good diet to follow, you must be speaking out of ignorance, keto is VERY healthy which is another reason so many people are doing it. It is NOT healthy if you do it incorrectly and eat nothing but meat and cheese.
For the OP, if she is reading this, I would not try to limit carbs as much as a strict keto diet does. If she does this she will be left with very few options on what to eat. Since you are cutting carbs you do need to up the healthy fat intake. The reason for this is for calories, you need them for energy to go about your day. The important thing is to cut sugar and refined carbs completely out. The "whites" are what they are known as. White flour, potatoes, white rice, corn and sugar of course. I myself do not consume grains but I do it for blood sugar control, not weight loss. I do eat beans since they don't make me spike, I do not eat large amounts. Beans provide a good source of protein. I don't need it but the OP may need it. So yes, I would agree that for the OP it may be better to just do low carb and not specifically keto.
Which is really just low carb, high fat and I agree much better than actually eating keto. Particularly with the non-strict variations of keto, nobody is going to actually be in ketosis on them unless there's a significant amount of caloric restriction going on as well. The 75/20/5 variation might, but you're also only looking at 25 grams of carbs on a 2,000 calorie diet with 75/20/5. Even that is a big might as the protein will push a lot of people out of ketosis.
Keto is not healthy for most people. That's why you have variations that are much less stringent. With they result in any ketosis? In most cases no. They're also healthier. Unless your really trying to control seizures, doubling carbs and tripling protein from what they are in a keto diet is a good thing although, yeah, the chances of being in ketosis are pretty much none if you do so. On the other hand it makes it much easier to eat enough vegetables and possible to get sufficient protein. The real keto diets only allows for 30 grams of protein on a 2,000 calorie diet in some cases. They're largely customized for the individual and closely monitored. That's just not enough protein even to meet the RDA requirements. But that kind of stringency is necessary to consistently produce ketosis, and if that's what you're relying upon to control seizures the benefits may outweigh the costs of a diet that guarantees protein deficiency and severely restricts how many vegetables you can eat. At the outside, anything that's under 4:1 is not likely to be keto. That doesn't mean people won't call it keto. But then I could make a 60/30/10 diet and call it keto. Given that keto is the current diet flavor of the month for those who like fad diets, it would be smart to do so. Of course it's really just a high fat, low carb diet that has nothing to do with keto.
Keto is a therapeutic diet. To the extent you need to be in ketosis to get therapeutic benefits, the healhier keto-in-name diets that won't result in ketosis may not result in any of the benefits of a real keto diet that does result in ketosis. But then aside from seizures and some other brain diseases, it's not really clear why ketosis would matter. The brain and heart are really the only two organs that use ketone bodies anyway. Even with seizures, I don't think we really know why keto works for controlling seizures. The rest of the stuff is more experimental. It's really in the stages of establishing that it does work in the first place. It's entirely possible actual ketosis isn't doing anything there so you'd still get some, if not all, the benefits by eating one of those keto-in-name diets that don't result in ketosis but are much healthier.
Which is really just low carb, high fat and I agree much better than actually eating keto. Particularly with the non-strict variations of keto, nobody is going to actually be in ketosis on them unless there's a significant amount of caloric restriction going on as well. The 75/20/5 variation might, but you're also only looking at 25 grams of carbs on a 2,000 calorie diet with 75/20/5. Even that is a big might as the protein will push a lot of people out of ketosis.
Keto is not healthy for most people. That's why you have variations that are much less stringent. With they result in any ketosis? In most cases no. They're also healthier. Unless your really trying to control seizures, doubling carbs and tripling protein from what they are in a keto diet is a good thing although, yeah, the chances of being in ketosis are pretty much none if you do so. On the other hand it makes it much easier to eat enough vegetables and possible to get sufficient protein. The real keto diets only allows for 30 grams of protein on a 2,000 calorie diet in some cases. They're largely customized for the individual and closely monitored. That's just not enough protein even to meet the RDA requirements. But that kind of stringency is necessary to consistently produce ketosis, and if that's what you're relying upon to control seizures the benefits may outweigh the costs of a diet that guarantees protein deficiency and severely restricts how many vegetables you can eat. At the outside, anything that's under 4:1 is not likely to be keto. That doesn't mean people won't call it keto. But then I could make a 60/30/10 diet and call it keto. Given that keto is the current diet flavor of the month for those who like fad diets, it would be smart to do so. Of course it's really just a high fat, low carb diet that has nothing to do with keto.
Keto is a therapeutic diet. To the extent you need to be in ketosis to get therapeutic benefits, the healhier keto-in-name diets that won't result in ketosis may not result in any of the benefits of a real keto diet that does result in ketosis. But then aside from seizures and some other brain diseases, it's not really clear why ketosis would matter. The brain and heart are really the only two organs that use ketone bodies anyway. Even with seizures, I don't think we really know why keto works for controlling seizures. The rest of the stuff is more experimental. It's really in the stages of establishing that it does work in the first place. It's entirely possible actual ketosis isn't doing anything there so you'd still get some, if not all, the benefits by eating one of those keto-in-name diets that don't result in ketosis but are much healthier.
I think we're a bit off topic already. I don't sweat the details on the macros but that is just me. Overall, it's low carb and higher fat when I can. I think that the reason keto works for epilepsy is the lack of glucose, and the extra fat intake helps to offset the lack of glucose. The body makes its own glucose for the tissues that need it. The reason it works for weight loss (and good health) is the lower insulin levels. I mentioned keeping blood sugar low. Many still don't see the connection, they think it only pertains to diabetics. They couldn't be more wrong. It's obvious, lower blood sugar equals lower insulin. THAT is the reason, it is cause and effect. Keto is healthy if done right, regardless of what you say. ALL of the health markers improve and the excess weight comes off. I could give you countless examples but I won't bother. I don't need to convince you. We'll just agree to disagree.
I think we're a bit off topic already. I don't sweat the details on the macros but that is just me. Overall, it's low carb and higher fat when I can. I think that the reason keto works for epilepsy is the lack of glucose, and the extra fat intake helps to offset the lack of glucose. The body makes its own glucose for the tissues that need it. The reason it works for weight loss (and good health) is the lower insulin levels. I mentioned keeping blood sugar low. Many still don't see the connection, they think it only pertains to diabetics. They couldn't be more wrong. It's obvious, lower blood sugar equals lower insulin. THAT is the reason, it is cause and effect. Keto is healthy if done right, regardless of what you say. ALL of the health markers improve and the excess weight comes off. I could give you countless examples but I won't bother. I don't need to convince you. We'll just agree to disagree.
You're either in ketosis or you are not which determines whether or not a diet is actually a ketogenic diet. The macros will vary from person to person. Most people need to be over that 4:1 ratio or they're just eating a low carb, high fat, non-ketogenic diet. There's no need to rely in macros as it's so easy to test for ketone bodies. Once you get an idea what is a ketogenic diet for you, that's really where the macros become important. It really doesn't matter whether 80/15/5 (4:1) is keto for someone else if it isn't for you. Eating high fat, low carb that's non-keto doesn't mean you won't have improved health markers even if the way you eat isn't keto. Just losing weight improves most health markers regardless of macros anyway.
I've never personally tested for ketosis or tracked any macros and my numbers have improved. My BP is normal, my cholesterol is in the normal range as well as my trigs. I'm still diabetic but very well controlled. If was to eat everything as I did some years back I would be in terrible health, I know that for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric
Just losing weight improves most health markers regardless of macros anyway.
I think not. I know plenty of people that of normal weight and are in terrible health. Type 2 diabetics are typically overweight but not always. I also know people that are overweight and have normal numbers. I was talking about health markers not necessarily having to do with weight such as lipids, glucose, and BP. THOSE markers do show improvement with keto type diets.
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and some red tea. However, in all honesty, it's all about the mind and how you can control it. Will Power!
