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I've never personally tested for ketosis or tracked any macros and my numbers have improved. My BP is normal, my cholesterol is in the normal range as well as my trigs. I'm still diabetic but very well controlled. If was to eat everything as I did some years back I would be in terrible health, I know that for sure.
I think not. I know plenty of people that of normal weight and are in terrible health. Type 2 diabetics are typically overweight but not always. I also know people that are overweight and have normal numbers. I was talking about health markers not necessarily having to do with weight such as lipids, glucose, and BP. THOSE markers do show improvement with keto type diets.
Yeah, that's kind of the point. Ketogenic diets require a very fine balancing act as the margins are very thin. It requires a lot of careful planning as there's almost no leeway between protein deficiency and not getting a few vegetables in on the one end and just not being in ketosis on the other.
Sounds more like we're just having a semantic difference. My criticism of keto is it's too restrictive of carbs and protein. Anything much above that 4:1 ratio of fat to carbs+protein I would not call keto as, well, it doesn't produce ketosis absent a lot of calorie restriction. Most people would be a lot better relaxing the carbs a bit and not worrying about an extra 20 grams of protein. That more or less sounds like what you're talking about since you're saying double the carbs and you don't worry about macros. Instead of 80/15/5, maybe you're eating 70/20/10 or even 65/25/10. Respectively a 2.3:1 or 1.85:1 ratios are way off 4:1 and hence just are not going to result in any ketosis. I don't call that keto, but I do think it's much healthier. You call it keto and insist keto is healthy. If that's the case, it's just semantics. What differentiates keto to me from say Atkins or a generic high fat, low carb diet is ketosis. No ketosis, no keto. Atkins induction is basically keto minus the protein restrictions and Atkins phase two (weight loss) is really just more what you're describing, up to double the carbs of keto without restricting protein. It just focuses on being high fat, moderate protein, low carb but isn't obsessing about the macros as it's not concerned with ketosis. Eating an extra 5-10 grams of protein doesn't matter in Atkins. It does if you're trying to be in ketosis if you're using that to control seizures with diet.
Yeah, that's kind of the point. Ketogenic diets require a very fine balancing act as the margins are very thin. It requires a lot of careful planning as there's almost no leeway between protein deficiency and not getting a few vegetables in on the one end and just not being in ketosis on the other.
Sounds more like we're just having a semantic difference. My criticism of keto is it's too restrictive of carbs and protein. Anything much above that 4:1 ratio of fat to carbs+protein I would not call keto as, well, it doesn't produce ketosis absent a lot of calorie restriction. Most people would be a lot better relaxing the carbs a bit and not worrying about an extra 20 grams of protein. That more or less sounds like what you're talking about since you're saying double the carbs and you don't worry about macros. Instead of 80/15/5, maybe you're eating 70/20/10 or even 65/25/10. Respectively a 2.3:1 or 1.85:1 ratios are way off 4:1 and hence just are not going to result in any ketosis. I don't call that keto, but I do think it's much healthier. You call it keto and insist keto is healthy. If that's the case, it's just semantics. What differentiates keto to me from say Atkins or a generic high fat, low carb diet is ketosis. No ketosis, no keto. Atkins induction is basically keto minus the protein restrictions and Atkins phase two (weight loss) is really just more what you're describing, up to double the carbs of keto without restricting protein. It just focuses on being high fat, moderate protein, low carb but isn't obsessing about the macros as it's not concerned with ketosis. Eating an extra 5-10 grams of protein doesn't matter in Atkins. It does if you're trying to be in ketosis if you're using that to control seizures with diet.
I do agree and I think the word Keto is now used generically to describe any low carb diet even when it's not true keto. The true meaning of the word is being lost. I used to call it LC or LC/HF. Everybody started calling it keto and so did I. According to the "authorities", keto is 20 to 50g but in reality, as far as preventing seizures it should be very restrictive, closer to 20.
Interesting. My question is if you're not in true ketosis/strictly following keto, then your body isn't truly using fat as its primary fuel source, right?
Interesting. My question is if you're not in true ketosis/strictly following keto, then your body isn't truly using fat as its primary fuel source, right?
When you deprive yourself of glucose (carbs), your body wouldn't have a choice but to burn fat, true ketosis not required. Some cells only run on glucose so your body converts proteins and/or fats. The objective is to use stored fat and not dietary fat. You can do this with exercise as well when glycogen stores run out, then fat burning starts. If you don't have much glycogen stored up, this happens much quicker. That is the theory anyway and since people are losing weight with low carb (not keto) diets, that would make sense.
When you deprive yourself of glucose (carbs), your body wouldn't have a choice but to burn fat, true ketosis not required. Some cells only run on glucose so your body converts proteins and/or fats. The objective is to use stored fat and not dietary fat. You can do this with exercise as well when glycogen stores run out, then fat burning starts. If you don't have much glycogen stored up, this happens much quicker. That is the theory anyway and since people are losing weight with low carb (not keto) diets, that would make sense.
They are burning more calories than they are taking in. That is why they are losing weight.
They are burning more calories than they are taking in. That is why they are losing weight.
My explanation is not as simplistic as CICO. Regardless of calories, if you keep insulin levels high as in eating frequently and eating the wrong foods, they don't lose anything. That is assuming you don't spend all day working out. Care to explain why low carb diets are so much more successful than calorie restricted diets? I wonder why literally millions are doing low carb diets and being successful and NOT ONE mention of a calorie? I doubt I will get a viable answer because you don't seem to understand (or believe in) the concept.
Interesting. My question is if you're not in true ketosis/strictly following keto, then your body isn't truly using fat as its primary fuel source, right?
Not necessarily.
Disregarding prolonged exercise, you're really talking the brain. The rest of the body doesn't need the liver to turn fat into ketone bodies..it can just use the fat directly. The brain is really bad at using fat so it had to rely on glucose/ketones. Even on a 4:1 quite a few people won't be in ketosis. So 80 percent fat, 15 percent protein, 5 percent carbs.
Obviously you're mostly burning fat there, either your own or dietary. There's a good chance of there being ketosis but by no means a guarantee.
On the flip side if you just regularly ingest small amounts of carbs, you can stay out of ketosis a massive caloric deficit. 500 calories a day would be much more than enough to avoid ketosis while the bulk of the energy would come from stored body fat and muscle canniblization.
My explanation is not as simplistic as CICO. Regardless of calories, if you keep insulin levels high as in eating frequently and eating the wrong foods, they don't lose anything. That is assuming you don't spend all day working out. Care to explain why low carb diets are so much more successful than calorie restricted diets? I wonder why literally millions are doing low carb diets and being successful and NOT ONE mention of a calorie? I doubt I will get a viable answer because you don't seem to understand (or believe in) the concept.
Over what time frame?
Most studies show low carb or very low carb as better for short-term weight loss. Once looking out at 12 months, however, there's no statistical difference in most studies. That's a much more limited data set. There's lots of studies to do meta analysis of different diets. Not many of them last 12 months or longer. Of those that do, almost none of them are very low carb and anything from 20 to 40% is low carb, depending who is doing the defining.
I didn't read through all the posts to see if this is mentioned but I use the Nasoya pasta zero - shirataki spaghetti. It is found in the produce section and has only 8 carbs for the whole package. I combine this with all sorts of steamed vegetables cabbage, broccoli, spinach, cauliflower, etc. (I add chicken) and add a little seasoning and it makes a great meal. I always feel full after eating it.
I also like the FAGE yogurt and will put fresh blueberries in it. Sugar free jello with berries and heavy cream on top is also a favorite treat. Satisfies my sugar crave, since I don't eat any candy or sweets anymore.
I have been doing Keto since Sept and lost 25 pounds by Dec. I am just maintaining my weight now as I reached my goal weight.
I didn't read through all the posts to see if this is mentioned but I use the Nasoya pasta zero - shirataki spaghetti. It is found in the produce section and has only 8 carbs for the whole package. I combine this with all sorts of steamed vegetables cabbage, broccoli, spinach, cauliflower, etc. (I add chicken) and add a little seasoning and it makes a great meal. I always feel full after eating it.
I also like the FAGE yogurt and will put fresh blueberries in it. Sugar free jello with berries and heavy cream on top is also a favorite treat. Satisfies my sugar crave, since I don't eat any candy or sweets anymore.
I have been doing Keto since Sept and lost 25 pounds by Dec. I am just maintaining my weight now as I reached my goal weight.
Good luck~
I tried those. I couldn't get past the taste. Something about the flavor just didn't sit well with me. I rinsed them like the package said, and that helped a little. The aftertaste was gross though.
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