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As always when these threads and the inevitable "You are an irresponsible pet owner and an idiot to boot who doesn't exercise your dog enough" responses come up, I have to voice my often-shared contrary experience to the "a tired dog is a good dog" trope that gets trotted out.
I have what sounds to be a similar dog to yours, at least as far as the first page of responses goes, b/c I haven't gotten any further yet. A rescue who is high-energy, destructive for entertainment's sake, and very, very attention-needy. A dog who, left to his own devices for even a short period of time unconfined, will damage and destroy anything in his path, indiscriminately.
We adopted him at 1.5 years old, and have had him for coming up on two years, and it's not something he's ever grown out of. We exercise him vigorously, without fail, in rain, shine, snow, or ice. We get up an hour and a half early so that he can have an hour-long walk prior to crating/us going to work, and the first person home does another hour at that point in time. We usually end up doing at least 45 minutes before bed, as well. We go to a fenced park for off-leash exercise time as we can, but that's not allowed for our early-morning regimen, and most pre-bedtime ones, as the parks are closed before sunrise and after sunset. We do go a lot on the weekends, though. For most of his walks done by my boyfriend, it's a running pace, as he is a distance runner. He does not, under any circumstances, want for exercise. None of this has made a whit of difference in his urge to chew and tear. He doesn't GET so tired out that it's unappealing. He has many, many acceptable things to chew, which are appealing to him, but that also doesn't cut down on the many unacceptable things in our house being just as appealing to chew. He'll gnaw on his extreme Kong full of peanut butter, no problem, but he'll just as gladly gnaw on socks he's pilfered, appliance cords, chair legs, etc.
I obviously advocate exercising your dog as much and as vigorously as possible. But I unfortunately have learned through experience that it's not the only factor in curbing a dog's drive to chew/destroy. If exercise alone did it, I'd never have a shred of damage to anything in my house. It's not a magic bullet, unfortunately, though others who have different dogs with different behavior than yours will doubtless swear by it as a cureall.
His main targets for destructive chewing are socks and underwear he's stolen from hampers he's toppled to pop off the secure lids, or pulled out through vent holes. He'll also chew furniture legs, the edges of shelves, blind pulls, any pens or pencils within his reach, the list goes on. Anything that is or was a receptacle for anything edible, or even came into contact with anything food/foodlike is pretty much toast, too; as a scenthound, there is no keeping him from edibles, he'll find and get at anything.
We take all the normal precautions of keeping things put away and secured, be he is a smart dog, and is good at working doors and drawers open to get at things (especially anything he can in any way smell). The best safeguard for socks (and shoes, although he has not been nearly as drawn to chewing them, except in the case of rubbery flip flops) and the like have been the long, flat Rubbermaid type containers that are easily stored under beds. They seal tightly enough, and are low enough to the ground that he can't get good enough leverage to pop them open. We tried taller storage tubs, but, like the hampers, he could knock them over and pop off lids easily to get at what was inside.
The main thing we've had to do, though, is crate him WHENEVER he cannot be in our sightlines. This means, ANY time my eyeballs or my boyfriend's eyeballs cannot be on him, he is confined. It's for his own safety, as well as to protect our household furnishings and possessions. Examples of things he has chewed/wrecked while unsupervised for even as short a period of time as somebody jumping in the shower... vacuum cleaner cord, which would have been dangerous had the appliance been plugged in; pin cushion full of pins removed from a closed sewing cabinet (requiring a trip to the vet to x-ray and check for straight pin ingestion); a half a bar of Lindt 80% cacao dark chocolate he got out of a closed pantry cabinet.
The only time he is uncrated and unsupervised is when we are all asleep, and that's only because in 2.5 years, he has shown no evidence of doing anything overnight other than sleeping on our feet at the foot of our mattress. He doesn't get up and roam in the night, and if we found evidence that he did, he'd have to be crated overnight, too. In our case, it's not sufficient exercise that is the key to success...it's constant vigilance and confinement EVERY time there is no (or limited) supervision. Edit - We also have done obedience classes, and they were most helpful with separation anxiety, but really helped minimally with destructive chewing. Only supervision has limited that.
Last edited by TabulaRasa; 05-30-2011 at 02:40 PM..
But I would want more than just high level titles. I'd want recommendations too!
My reason is because some trainers, who enter dogs into competitions, keep their dogs in kennels, not inside their homes.
As a result, those trainers' high titles don't mean they'll be successful in helping a family deal with in home behavioral problems.
Well...as someone who has put titles and CH titles on dogs personally, and also I know many people who have very high-performing or show dogs...I do not know a single one of them who kennels their dogs, or whose dogs are not an integral part of their family and their life. All of the dogs here are sleeping inside right now, and the agility champion is sleeping on my bed.
This seems to be a fairly common misconception: that people with show/performance/sport dogs keep them in kennels or somehow apart from day to day life. I have never seen this, ever. I know people whose dogs are shown at Westminster and Crufts, whose dogs have travelled to Europe to compete in agility and Shutzhund and international levels, and people whose dogs have ranked nationally (two of mine have) and every single one of these dogs lives inside, sleeps on the furniture and is never kenneled.
Where does this misconception come from, I wonder? Do you personally know people whose high-achieving dogs are not part of the family, but are isolated in kennels outside? Do you have kennel names? Because I don't know anyone like this at all. And I know a LOT of serious dog people...probably more serious than you would ever meet in your lifetime.
On the other hand I meet "family dogs" that live in peoples' homes almost every day in the course of my work who are so uncontrollable they can't be walked on leash or taken anywhere because they've never been trained. The majority of dogs that live as "family dogs" can't be trusted off leash or in public. I can't think of a single show/work/sport dog that I know than isn't granted liberal freedom, because they've been TRAINED. I can take my dogs just about anywhere off-leash and can call two of them off a running deer or other prey...because they are TRAINED. (The other two: one is a very high-drive working line import Rottweiler who isn't a year old yet and has not earned the privilege of being off-leash, the other is a pit bull x Lab foster dog who I haven't put enough work into yet.)
Well...as someone who has put titles and CH titles on dogs personally, and also I know many people who have very high-performing or show dogs...I do not know a single one of them who kennels their dogs, or whose dogs are not an integral part of their family and their life. All of the dogs here are sleeping inside right now, and the agility champion is sleeping on my bed.
This seems to be a fairly common misconception: that people with show/performance/sport dogs keep them in kennels or somehow apart from day to day life. I have never seen this, ever. I know people whose dogs are shown at Westminster and Crufts, whose dogs have travelled to Europe to compete in agility and Shutzhund and international levels, and people whose dogs have ranked nationally (two of mine have) and every single one of these dogs lives inside, sleeps on the furniture and is never kenneled.
Where does this misconception come from, I wonder? Do you personally know people whose high-achieving dogs are not part of the family, but are isolated in kennels outside? Do you have kennel names? Because I don't know anyone like this at all. And I know a LOT of serious dog people...probably more serious than you would ever meet in your lifetime.
On the other hand I meet "family dogs" that live in peoples' homes almost every day in the course of my work who are so uncontrollable they can't be walked on leash or taken anywhere because they've never been trained. The majority of dogs that live as "family dogs" can't be trusted off leash or in public. I can't think of a single show/work/sport dog that I know than isn't granted liberal freedom, because they've been TRAINED. I can take my dogs just about anywhere off-leash and can call two of them off a running deer or other prey...because they are TRAINED. (The other two: one is a very high-drive working line import Rottweiler who isn't a year old yet and has not earned the privilege of being off-leash, the other is a pit bull x Lab foster dog who I haven't put enough work into yet.)
My Rip is a hunting and competition dog that was kenneled only.
It is taking a while but, he is learning how to be in the house.
My Rip is a hunting and competition dog that was kenneled only.
It is taking a while but, he is learning how to be in the house.
He HATED it at first!!!!
LOL!
I have to say I have noticed more of a trend to outside dogs with hunting hounds....but I don't know anyone IRL with a working hunting dog.
I do know a lot of people seriously active (as in national & international levels) in conformation showing, agility, obedience, pulling/carting and Schutzhund but every dog I can think of lives inside and is a house dog and pet, albeit a better-trained and luckier one than most sedentary "coffee table" dogs I know.
As a reminder.. we are here to help not to admonish others who might not have the experience you do when dealing with puppies or training dogs. Being rude to someone who is asking for help is not acceptable
Jazz was a very dificult puupy and got into everything and loved to rip things up. I used crates, tethers, I pretty much dog proofed my downstairs and she was not allowed upstairs except to sleep in her crate in my room at night and she was out running many hours each day. I did manage to keep damage way down
What helped the most with her was the mental stimulation when we went walking or were out playing I put lots of " pop quizzes" ( obedience work) in there which kept her thinking. As we walked I would suddenly demand a down or a sit or even one of her tricks,we would do it often..yes it slowed down walks but she came home both physically and mentally tired. When we played I would toss her ball but have her do things before she could get it,like drop her half way then do a roll over then release to get the ball, people at the park use to love watching her " play" and she enjoyed it too but as I said it mentally exhausted her. With her herding breeds just increasing the exercise with out mental stimulation just seemed to build up her exercise tolerance and it took more and more to tire her but that mental stimulation really did it.
I also taught her to settle so she learned that there were times I did expect her to lay quietly and behave. We did many obedience classes and agility too.
I Also invested in alot of toys that would add to that mental stimulation, Toys that combined food and figuring out how to get it worked great and hiding them so she had to find them added to it. If she wanted to Jazz could get up on the top of my refrigerator to get something.
I put a ton of time and yes money into her but there came the day I no longer had to dog proof my house and I could trust her to leave my things alone and she ended up being the best dog I have ever owned and when she died last year at 14.5 it really broke my heart as she was so worth those early years of pure hell. You are right most people would have given up on your dog so you deserve alot of credit for seeking advice and trying to work on the issues.
After Jazz I said I would Never raise a young puppy again and here it is almost 15 yrs later and what do I have... Chaos my newest puppy. advantage is I have all the toys And big brother Dazzle to keep her busy but I am applying the mental stimulation and other things I did learn with Jazz. I wish you luck as unless you are living it it is so easy to be critical of the issues.
Champion titles of any kind, AKC open or utility obedience- there are so many venues and registries it's hard to be specific...basically anything beyond very basic titles that almost anyone can put on a dog after a few obedience classes.
I don't mean for that to sound snobby, and many excellent trainers have never put titles on dogs; probably there are people who have who are lousy trainers so I'km not saying that's the only criterion.
I guess my point was, don't be impressed by someone whose only claim to fame is a CD/CGC or other low-level title. They are very easy to get. Someone who has put forth the considerable effort and expense to put advanced or champion titles of any sort (herding, obedience, tracking, agility, hunting, etc) on one or more dogs has by definition spent a lot of time in classes and working on their skills.
Oh no, you don't sound snobby. I needed clarification. Thank you so much for providing that, it's really appreciated.
Wow, I'm so sorry you're frustrated. Our dog chews up some of our stuff, but it's all the usual levels. I totally agree with the poster below. I was having housebreaking issues, and really the only thing I could do was crate Shep if I could be supervising. I think in one of your posts you mentioned he took one of your shoes while you were on the phone for a minute. I'll bet that minute was longer than a minute, only because it's something that would happen to me (only I'd be online). I also have 3 kids and sometimes I have to go upstairs to change a diaper or change their clothes, or break up a fight, or whatever. There's just no way I can keep my eye on the dog literally every single minute. And he's not allowed upstairs. So I crate him. If I have to take a shower, I crate him. If I have to go to the bathroom, I crate him. Even if it's only going to take a 60 second minute, if I can't be looking at him, I crate him. Now Shep came to me crate trained, so the crate IS his off switch (truly it's amazing). If you can get your dog to that point, it will save your sanity until he's a little older and the edges have worn off. If he turns out to be like Tabularasa's dog, then crating will be part of his life. There are worse things, I'm sure.
I've never consulted a behaviorist before, but for something of this magnitude, I'd at least consider it and see if there is one in my area.
Good and keep us updated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
The main thing we've had to do, though, is crate him WHENEVER he cannot be in our sightlines. This means, ANY time my eyeballs or my boyfriend's eyeballs cannot be on him, he is confined. It's for his own safety, as well as to protect our household furnishings and possessions. Examples of things he has chewed/wrecked while unsupervised for even as short a period of time as somebody jumping in the shower... vacuum cleaner cord, which would have been dangerous had the appliance been plugged in; pin cushion full of pins removed from a closed sewing cabinet (requiring a trip to the vet to x-ray and check for straight pin ingestion); a half a bar of Lindt 80% cacao dark chocolate he got out of a closed pantry cabinet.
The only time he is uncrated and unsupervised is when we are all asleep, and that's only because in 2.5 years, he has shown no evidence of doing anything overnight other than sleeping on our feet at the foot of our mattress. He doesn't get up and roam in the night, and if we found evidence that he did, he'd have to be crated overnight, too. In our case, it's not sufficient exercise that is the key to success...it's constant vigilance and confinement EVERY time there is no (or limited) supervision. Edit - We also have done obedience classes, and they were most helpful with separation anxiety, but really helped minimally with destructive chewing. Only supervision has limited that.
I decided to take the day off and I read the rest of the comments this morning. I appreciate the non-shrill, non-judgmental advice from the last several pages. We have a lot to think about and a few things to try that we haven't already. Aside from the coffee cup incident, yesterday was a good day. We were outdoors working in the yard for most of it and she got worn out with her walks and frisbee sessions plus she is much more content outdoors, even in her little pen or on a cable near us. She did a little digging but in an area where she couldn't do much damage.
We don't want to return her to rescue if we can help it. I'm pretty sure that she was sent to the pound in the first place because someone thoughtlessly got an adorable little black and white ball of fluff puppy that looked like a toy from a box out of the back of a car in a parking lot and then didn't have time for her. As she got a bit older and started to teethe, she began to do damage and she very likely peed on their carpets. (We had house training issues early on that we've worked through.) Because this dog peed on her bed with us, they probably crated her for far too long without attention. This dog desperately wants attention but to the point of being pathological about it.
We do not want to send her off to someone else who in all honesty, if they knew what a handful she is, would probably not want her. I make her sound terrible and many times she really is, but she's also sweet, funny, (and super smart which is a problem because it's combined with a rock hard head) and also I think that she does want to please us but like the potty training thing, we are having a hard time getting her to understand how to do that.
Unlike our other past dogs, (who now seem so amazingly simple) training this dog is very complex. I'd like to say that is because she was messed up by a bad home but we've fostered abused and neglected Airedales in the past, one badly abused one for over a year, and they all just "got it" after a short time of training. I'm pretty sure it's breed characteristics with a terrier/herder mix.
We will try some of the suggestions such as the indoor leash or confinement as she does her worst inside when eyes are not directly on her. We have talked about doggy day care, even though she can be with us all day for the stimulation and exposure to other dogs, but the good ones have waiting lists. We will get on the list for a few days a week if not for her, then respite for us. Hopefully we will have a detente in this house and I'll have shoes to wear. I'll keep you posted.
Be careful with confinement. My coworker would confine her dogs to a bathroom or laundry room (can't remember which) when she wasn't home. They ate the walls!
Definitely try the tether on and off.
Reinforce everything she has already learned. Make her sit randomly, for no reason other than "you said so."
Since she learned the standard commands well, add new commands. We have lots of everyday commands in our house that aren't in books.
Off! When she's on the table, OFF! When she gets off to your command, REWARD HER.
Remember, happy commands, her name goes first. "Rover, Come!"
Discipline/reprimand commands, the name goes last. "Off, Rover!"
(FYI: "off" can be a happy command by simply saying "Rover, Off!" when you want the dog off but the dog isn't doing anything wrong.)
The point is to always say their name last when you're upset. Never say their name first when you are upset.
Here are some commands we use everyday aside from the normal sit, lay, come, stay:
"off" when we want them off the sofa or off anything.
"up" when we're inviting them up onto the sofa or bed.
"inside" when we want them to go inside the house.
"outside" when we want them to go outside.
"turn around" when I want my Lab to stand up and change laying down positions. I created this when he was younger because I didn't like his toe nails digging into me. But it has been useful now that he has arthritis because he needs to lay in different positions.
"stop the paws" stop licking anything. I used to say this when he licked his paws all the time. Last night, I started saying it again because he is licking furniture and he stopped instantly.
"stop" they stop dead in their tracks whenever I yell stop. This is different from "stay" because stay usually happens when they're not in motion. If they are running, walking or doing anything, "stop" makes them freeze in their tracks.
"pass" this is poop and pee on command. We were potty training a toddler at the time and didn't want the dog to do it on command in the house when we were saying poopy and peepee to our child.
"home" this tells them to go home. It also alerts them that we're almost home when we are in the car.
"go lay down" which is different from "down" because I want them to go away, not lay down at my feet.
I'll post some others as they come to mind. But the point is you can create your own personal commands that aren't in books that work best for your situation.
I have hand signals that don't have words' such as hand signals to "back up" and "move aside." I'm sure I used the words "back up" when I first started.
My hand signals aren't typical. They are what feels right to me. For example, "come" is a side sweep of the hand and forearm, starting outward and coming towards my chest. My hand command for "go away" is the opposite with my palm facing my chest and then moving outward to the side. I also point in conjunction to other commands---some meaning to "fetch" something and some meaning to just go away there.
My gestures are more grand because dogs vision deteriorates when older. My lab can't see a little flick of the finger in low light situations. He can see large movements. Dogs are more visual than they are audio. I truly believe they could probably understand more sign language than our speaking language. Unfortunately, I don't know sign language to validate if that's true or not. I just know that my dogs understand many gestures I do, many of which I'm not aware of doing and won't remember to list them here until I catch myself doing them.
The purpose of all of this is for your dog to learn to do whatever you want, whenever you command. It may seem silly to tell her to "sit" for no reason, but that helps her understand you are the boss. As long as you are fair and only rewarding, your dog will do anything for you. The only punishment should be the sternness of your voice when giving a reprimand command, but that needs to be immediately followed by a reward and/or praise then the dog listens to your reprimand.
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). I also have 3 kids and sometimes I have to go upstairs to change a diaper or change their clothes, or break up a fight, or whatever. There's just no way I can keep my eye on the dog literally every single minute. And he's not allowed upstairs. So I crate him. If I have to take a shower, I crate him. If I have to go to the bathroom, I crate him. Even if it's only going to take a 60 second minute, if I can't be looking at him, I crate him. Now Shep came to me crate trained, so the crate IS his off switch (truly it's amazing). If you can get your dog to that point, it will save your sanity until he's a little older and the edges have worn off. If he turns out to be like Tabularasa's dog, then crating will be part of his life. There are worse things, I'm sure. 
