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With your admittedly limited knowledge of dogs generally, puppies in particular and this wonderful but high energy breed specifically, this sounds like a recipe for disaster.
All the advice given by the other posters is spot on, but you need to understand what happens beginning with the moment you pick up that puppy from the breeder to the day you finally make it to the first puppy class. The point being that, just like children, those neural pathways are forming NOW and what you do during these first few days and weeks will have a lasting effect on your puppy's behavior. As an example, do you know how to deal with a 'mouthy' puppy? Waiting for a puppy class to start means undoing the behavior you've been unwittingly encouraging for the last so many weeks/months. It's been a hot summer so far and you are picking up this high energy bundle in the middle of summer. Do you know how you are going to burn off that energy (safely) in this heat?
If the breeder is responsible you won't be getting him/her until it is 9 weeks old (some will argue 8, but earlier than that is indicative of a questionable breeder — very important developmental skills are being learned within the litter during that time.) Puppies get three sets of shots, the last at about 15 weeks. While there is some risk of contracting Parvo some trainers allow puppies into class after the second set. During this period you (meaning *everyone* in the household) need to know what you are doing from day one. And no you won't learn that over the internet. Also, your preferred training school may be closed for the rest of the summer which means waiting until classes restart in September.
The breeder should tell you what she has been feeding the puppies and give you a day or twos worth of food. You can begin changing over, if you wish, slowly, over a couple of weeks. Were their any food issues with the litter? Do they need to be on a grain-free diet? Will the breeder give you a collar and lead? Has the breeder started house-training? When you get the dog are you you planning on driving home with the dog in a crate? How long a trip is it? Are you planning on crate-training? A really sound idea, but do you know how to survive the first night?
Do you have an independently owned pet store nearby with a knowledgeable owner who can guide you through appropriate food choices? Is the owner up-to-date on the latest pet food recalls — some just within the last week? Never ever get anything that came from China (or the ROC as it is sometimes labeled).
I could go on but first, it is good that you recognize your limitations and second, to make life fun for everyone (which is the point of this endeavor hopefully) you need to find a knowledgable trainer or owner that can help you through those first few weeks so that you start off on the right foot. It only requires consistency and patience (lots of consistency and patience) to teach the behavior right the first time. Undoing unwanted behaviors is much less fun. And having a well-trained and obedient dog is a joy.
DogWise is a good source of reading material to help you get started.
The puppy will be 8 weeks old when we get him. He will have a very active cat for company (she likes to pounce and wrestle) and, for a time, a very old sick cat (dying of kidney failure so nothing he can catch). The breeder says this breed is very good with cats if they are raised with them and that we just have to teach him to be gentle with the kitty. We are enrolling him in puppy class but that doesn't start until he's about 11 weeks old so we have a month with him before we'll have professional help.
As to other dogs, the neighbors have a dog he'll, obviously, be around and my daughter's best friend, who lives only a few doors down, has a dog he'll be socialized with. He will also be walked twice a day and there are lots of dogs in the neighborhood.
One future issue we may have to deal with is getting a kitten when my old cat dies but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Cats don't like being the only cat when they're left alone for long periods of time (during the school year, we're gone from about 8:00 AM until about 2:30 - 5:30 PM depending on which sports season it is.). I'm not sure if the dog will be company enough for the cat as she prefers a playmate (much to my old cat's chagrin right now) and the dog may remain crated while we're gone depending on his behavior.
Oh, I should add that we'll have about four weeks with someone home with him all day before school starts. So he'll be about 11 weeks old when we'll have to leave him for long periods of time. The plan, right now, unless I learn this is an issue, is to have a penned area with his crate and an indoor potty patch off to one side. Dh will take him out in the morning before he leaves and dd#2 will take him out around 2:30. She can come home at 2:30 for most of the school year. On the days she can't, we'll have a neighbor take him out.
One question I have is will the dog realize I'm just not a dog person? I find the whole jumping and licking thing a bit much. Cats are more my style. Much lower maintenance and they don't chew the heels off of my favorite pair of shoes. The dog is for dh and my dd's.
Oh, and any advice for cleaning up after them on walks? Seriously, do they make any kind of scoop? (I know dumb question but I see people with grocery bags tied to leashes all the time and wonder how they actually pick up the poop...I told you I know nothing about dogs, lol)
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 07-05-2012 at 06:20 PM..
With your admittedly limited knowledge of dogs generally, puppies in particular and this wonderful but high energy breed specifically, this sounds like a recipe for disaster.
All the advice given by the other posters is spot on, but you need to understand what happens beginning with the moment you pick up that puppy from the breeder to the day you finally make it to the first puppy class. The point being that, just like children, those neural pathways are forming NOW and what you do during these first few days and weeks will have a lasting effect on your puppy's behavior. As an example, do you know how to deal with a 'mouthy' puppy? Waiting for a puppy class to start means undoing the behavior you've been unwittingly encouraging for the last so many weeks/months. It's been a hot summer so far and you are picking up this high energy bundle in the middle of summer. Do you know how you are going to burn off that energy (safely) in this heat?
If the breeder is responsible you won't be getting him/her until it is 9 weeks old (some will argue 8, but earlier than that is indicative of a questionable breeder — very important developmental skills are being learned within the litter during that time.) Puppies get three sets of shots, the last at about 15 weeks. While there is some risk of contracting Parvo some trainers allow puppies into class after the second set. During this period you (meaning *everyone* in the household) need to know what you are doing from day one. And no you won't learn that over the internet. Also, your preferred training school may be closed for the rest of the summer which means waiting until classes restart in September.
The breeder should tell you what she has been feeding the puppies and give you a day or twos worth of food. You can begin changing over, if you wish, slowly, over a couple of weeks. Were their any food issues with the litter? Do they need to be on a grain-free diet? Will the breeder give you a collar and lead? Has the breeder started house-training? When you get the dog are you you planning on driving home with the dog in a crate? How long a trip is it? Are you planning on crate-training? A really sound idea, but do you know how to survive the first night?
Do you have an independently owned pet store nearby with a knowledgeable owner who can guide you through appropriate food choices? Is the owner up-to-date on the latest pet food recalls — some just within the last week? Never ever get anything that came from China (or the ROC as it is sometimes labeled).
I could go on but first, it is good that you recognize your limitations and second, to make life fun for everyone (which is the point of this endeavor hopefully) you need to find a knowledgable trainer or owner that can help you through those first few weeks so that you start off on the right foot. It only requires consistency and patience (lots of consistency and patience) to teach the behavior right the first time. Undoing unwanted behaviors is much less fun. And having a well-trained and obedient dog is a joy.
DogWise is a good source of reading material to help you get started.
In answer to your questions...I have no clue. That's why I'm asking.
What is a "mouthy puppy" and how do you deal with it? It is the 3-4 weeks between getting him and starting training that have me worried. What I remember from dogs when I was a kid is they chew your shoes and poop all over the yard. Not fond memories at all. My neighbor trained his dog to use one corner of the yard and I'm hoping to do the same with our dog.
As to the breed. This breed was picked because they are ok with cats if raised with them. The cats were here first so any dog has to, at least, tolerate them. One of my cats is high energy and loves to rough and tumble play. I'm not sure how that's going to work out with the puppy. I'm not sure it's a good idea to let him play with her like that. She's about 8 pounds soaking wet. Both cats have been front declawed so they're defenseless against a dog.
The breeder did tell us what she feeds the puppy. She uses Diamond. We may continue but the pet store (not independent but they've been helpful) said there had been a recall on that brand and recommended Blue but the breeder says that's really expensive. We have a vet appointment the day after we get the puppy to start his shots so I'll ask the vet. My sick cat is on a prescription diet and I buy his food from the vet so I can see what they sell for puppies. Keeping him out of the cat's food will be a problem because the cat's food is low protein to help his kidneys and we leave it out all the time because he needs to eat as often as he can (He's down to 12 pounds from a high of 25 and not much more than skin and bones - seriously poor timing WRT getting a puppy if you ask me but dh bought the puppy for dd's birthday).
Thanks for the information and questions. I don't even know what to ask right now but I have this feeling if we don't train the dog right, we'll regret it for a long, long time.
get a crate and use it at night .. .. set up a schedual for feeding times and potty times and teach your pup that there is only one place in the yard he can poop .. ( its up to you to keep it very clean ) also enjoy him for being the cutest dog you ever met .. oh yeh line up the vet visit for the first days he is at your home .. To me that is a must
A mouthy puppy is one who nibbles playfully on your hands, etc. Not so much fun for the people. Say "OW!!" take your hand away and ignore the dog for a good while. Every time. Don't punish him for this, because he won't understand. Just make it unenjoyable because it means the end of playtime.
Strongly consider getting a baby gate to close off a room for the cats' food, etc. and to give them a place to get a break from the pesty puppy.
Yes, they have pooper scoopers, but those are cumbersome for walks. I don't even use one in the yard. Just take a poop bag, or other plastic bag. Put your hand in it, pick up the poop and then pull the top of the bag down to turn it inside out. Then tie it. You'll never touch poop.
You are talking about some long days away when school starts, so I hope you can get a neighbor to come frequently. The cat may or may not want to play with the dog, but that won't really be enough interaction. The potty patch could make housebreaking more confusing, so you might want to consider a crate instead if someone can come in often enough. Aussies are smart though, so the housebreaking might go well even with the "patch". I'm more concerned about puppy proofing issues (wires and other dangerous chewables) and the puppy getting enough stimulation during the day.
In answer to your questions...I have no clue. That's why I'm asking.
What is a "mouthy puppy" and how do you deal with it? It is the 3-4 weeks between getting him and starting training that have me worried. What I remember from dogs when I was a kid is they chew your shoes and poop all over the yard. Not fond memories at all. My neighbor trained his dog to use one corner of the yard and I'm hoping to do the same with our dog.
As to the breed. This breed was picked because they are ok with cats if raised with them. The cats were here first so any dog has to, at least, tolerate them. One of my cats is high energy and loves to rough and tumble play. I'm not sure how that's going to work out with the puppy. I'm not sure it's a good idea to let him play with her like that. She's about 8 pounds soaking wet. Both cats have been front declawed so they're defenseless against a dog.
The breeder did tell us what she feeds the puppy. She uses Diamond. We may continue but the pet store (not independent but they've been helpful) said there had been a recall on that brand and recommended Blue but the breeder says that's really expensive. We have a vet appointment the day after we get the puppy to start his shots so I'll ask the vet. My sick cat is on a prescription diet and I buy his food from the vet so I can see what they sell for puppies. Keeping him out of the cat's food will be a problem because the cat's food is low protein to help his kidneys and we leave it out all the time because he needs to eat as often as he can (He's down to 12 pounds from a high of 25 and not much more than skin and bones - seriously poor timing WRT getting a puppy if you ask me but dh bought the puppy for dd's birthday).
Thanks for the information and questions. I don't even know what to ask right now but I have this feeling if we don't train the dog right, we'll regret it for a long, long time.
If you don't want to deal with a lot of poop in your yard, stay away from Science Diet and anything chock full of corn! Corn is alright in the diet if it's further down the list as it's not an easily digestible food for man nor beast. Props to the person at the pet store who said no to Diamond and suggested Blue, expensive? Yes and no. Price point yes, amount of that to feed vs. a utilitarian food NO.
Mouthy is simply that; wanting to wrap his mouth around your hand, foot etc and being a tad nippy. Even if it looks adorable that he wants to chew on your finger/hand, the answer is no.
As for potty training, if you want him to go in one section of the yard, pick him up and take him there and stay by and praise him until your blue in the face when he goes. Potty patch? I've never used one inside as I want my dogs to potty outside, so maybe someone else has gone this route?
As adorable as he will be, no visiting with other dogs until after round two of vaccines have been in for two weeks, you do NOT want to deal with Parvo I promise you this. Just because other dogs might be vaccinated does not mean that some of the core diseases can't still be transferred especially if one steps in fecal matter and then licks their feet.
If you do not want him jumping and licking then you must keep the rules the same for everyone in the family or it will be confusing and a disaster.
Walking twice a day is a start, teach him fetch or see if the husband and kids want to get him involved with agility, this breed NEEDS a job.
Just keep in mind, a bored dog can miss behave in a heart beat. Just as you child proof a home for a toddler's safety, you'll need to do the same for the pup. If it's on the ground, it's fair game.
Australian Shepherds were bred as working dogs. They require a minimum of 2–3 hours a day of play, exercise, and attention. They thrive in rural, ranch like conditions, and need space to run and play in an urban setting. If ignored they can be destructive. They are high energy and very bright. I don't really think that puppy is the right fit for you. I have had Shelties for years. They take time, energy and love. They love cats and other animals, as do the A Shepards.
--I feel it would be a cruel mistake to keep that puppy in a crate all day. Ours were only crate trained for 2 months-only in the crate at night. They would run the whole time they were awake, and then fall over asleep. We had two and they kept each other company and exercised.
I guess this is a done deal, but it's true that lots of dogs besides Aussies can get along with cats. I've had cats with a pit bull, Pit/Dane mix, Chow Chow mix, and a Shepherd/Border Collie (?). They were all adults when they first lived with a cat, and in some cases it took a lot of work, but they all did well in the end. I'd say most puppies would learn to get along with a cat without as much trouble. One time of getting too bratty with the cat and getting swatted is usually enough for a puppy to learn to respect the cat. And playing should come naturally to the puppy- not necessarily so for the cat, no matter how playful it is with other cats and people.
We're getting an Austrailian Shepherd in 5 weeks. My kids have always wanted a dog. I'm not really a dog person (we had them when I was growing up and I remember they chewed everything and you couldn't walk barefoot in the back yard) and know little about training them. Dd and dh are, supposedly taking care of training but I'm starting to think neither one of them has a clue. Can someone direct me to some puppy 101 websites to help me sort through what we should and should not be doing before we end up with an ill trained dog?
Thanks
There are many many websites or go to a local pet store.
We had two pups last year and took them thru a course.
taught them the basics.
we eventually did well with the pups and now the are TDI Therapy Dog Internationl.
Right now we are lining up hospitals and nursing homes as to bring smiles to an ailing persons face.
We thought it would be a great way to give back to our community and worth every penny
At home I started with newspaper and pee wee pads by the door , then let them outsdie to potty train
always said potty outside. and once they did the deed reward with a treat . do this over and over..
buy a crate , make it his or her den , dont shut the door if you do not want to .
Do put a banket and a stuffed toy and buy plenty of chew toys the more the better.
One thing that helped us was getting them on scedule with water and food then you will know when to take them out to eliminate.. and then reward.. it works just do it over and over and over and over.
enjoy.
what joy they will take to your home ...congratulations
To add to cleosmom's excellent advice (although to be honest I hate to give advice at a distance) consider the following:
Don't let your vet sell you Science Diet. It's crap. Why is it there you ask? because Hill's gives it away to the Vet schools and they make money. Most knowledgeable dog-people will agree with that statement. Personally I wouldn't go to a Vet who carried the stuff.
Vets range from the touchy-feely holistic to old school. Do you know your Vet's general philosophy on dealing with his patients? (read Dr. Nancy Kay's Speaking for Spot) You should. You are going to be spending a lot of money there. What is her opinion on vaccinations? The thinking has changed fairly recently that all the vaccinations and booster shots aren't necessary (think Big Pharma). Do you know how your Vet feels about the current vaccination protocols?
Picking a breed for a particular reason is like saying all your children are the same. There are variations within the breed. There is no guarantee that your new puppy will get along with your cats simply because it is an Aussie. Yes, you can train that behavior, but it doesn't happen simply because you have an Aussie and you put them in the same room together to see what happens. If you find that the situation is just not working out and the cats are your priority, is your breeder willing to take the puppy back? Responsible breeders will step up to the plate in the interests of protecting their dogs. Your contract may even say something about returns.
From cleosmom's post: "Props to the person at the pet store who said no to Diamond and suggested Blue, expensive? Yes and no. Price point yes, amount of that to feed vs. a utilitarian food NO." If you think you can get away with grocery store-quality dog food you are making a mistake on several levels. Good food is expensive for a reason. Lower quality food is filled with cheap fillers and "meat by-product" and cheap grains that aren't good for digestion.
If you don't like picking up after your dog, well... either get used to it (here's where you'll get to see first hand the difference between cheap and quality food), or don't get a dog. Use newspaper bags (although becoming scarce), grocery store bags (check for holes), biodegradable lavender scented bags from the pet store or online. It's easy enough to house train by bringing the dog to the same spot in the yard — but here's the catch -- you have to be there to do it. The smell will remain at the spot you've chosen even though you've cleaned up. The pheromones remain and cause the dog to react involuntarily. Dogs don't "see" the way we do; they smell in a way that we can't.
"Mouthy is simply that; wanting to wrap his mouth around your hand, foot etc and being a tad nippy. Even if it looks adorable that he wants to chew on your finger/hand, the answer is no." Emphatically, no. Not you, not your friend, not your spouse, not your child. What is cute as a puppy is awful as an adult. And with some puppies, "a tad nippy" will leave you thinking you are in constant contact with a piranha -- no joke.
Visits *after* round two of shots, to me personally, is a risk that I'm willing to take. Why? Socialization. But it's still a risk. You need to understand the importance of socialization (to both people and dogs) and the risks of your puppy contracting Parvo and make your own decision.
Jumping up is something all puppies do. Simply don't encourage it by lavishing attention. The puppy wants attention. Turn sideways and the pup will lose its grip and walk away. Repeat and reward good behavior. Sitting at a "front", ie first, sitting, and second, looking at your face while sitting. Praise (good, Peaches!!) and reward. Or, click and treat. (clicker training, see Karen Pryor's books).
Excercise? Don't confuse the size of your house with exercise. Don't confuse running around in a dog park with exercise. Why?
Probably, most importantly, "this breed NEEDS a job." Or to put it another way, this breed shouldn't be left in a crate all day.
If you were my best friend (based on what you have written here) and recognizing that this may seem a bit harsh, I would be questioning whether you are really ready for a dog at this time. A better fit for you might be an older rescue from your local shelter.
But that's just my opinion.
Z
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