Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think many people still believe the alpha dog myth and worse yet even use the alpha roll. If you still buy into this outdated theory and have a facebook account then please look at todays Whole dog Journal post on Facebook as Pat Miller debunks the alpha dog myth. I do not know if there is a way to move the link here so if there is and some one knows how to do so then please do so everyone that is interested can see it by clicking a link instead of going to face book to find it. Thanks!
They're definitely pack animals, so as long as they know their place within the pack they're secure. Like a kid with two parents, there's a couple of Alpha's as far as they're concerned.
I agree completely about the outdated theory of the alpha roll...this, imo, can cause a great deal more harm than it does good (personal experience finally enlightened me), esp. with a dog that has insecurity issues, or fear issues. After my bc pup bit me over food guarding issues, my immediate reaction was to 'alpha roll' him...this one move destroyed both the trust that my dog had with me, and the trust I had with him; it took months to build that trust back up again, using more positive methods. I would never, ever advocate this as a form of dog training.
I have a cat/dog/human pack in my house. I'm the pack leader. My young male dog gives me the respect of one and his kitties are just little doggies to him. I suppose he'd a great big cat to them.
All the rest have *always* been in the group, but one dog and one cat. The dog was adopted from a lady who had put a house dog out in the field with the hounds while her son was in the army. She needed to get her a home and I took her knowing there are problems. She likes the kitties curling up with her and loves her boy doggie (who is much younger). But she has insecurities and damage and is FAR more needy than the rest. She sleeps under a blanket and will crawl under my legs sometimes to feel secure.
The cat is one I rescued from my abusive landord at four weeks. She has this *need* to control an is number one cause of fights. The damage will never be repaired, but she loves her doggies. My old beagle raised her after rescue and she slept with her and groomed her and the dog 'purred' with her. She hasn't ever really connected with any other animal, and she has her moments of sudden affection but doesn't like other people at all.
It's interesting how the cats fit nicely into the pack mentality too. I think it is more than instinct, but also a LARGE part how they are raised. When my older dog gets out of hand she gets a time out in the laundry room, and it works on the younger dog too. I've never had a lot of success with pushing alpha on a really stubborn, determined dog so personality also plays a part.
Last edited by nightbird47; 03-30-2013 at 03:39 PM..
I agree completely about the outdated theory of the alpha roll...this, imo, can cause a great deal more harm than it does good (personal experience finally enlightened me), esp. with a dog that has insecurity issues, or fear issues. After my bc pup bit me over food guarding issues, my immediate reaction was to 'alpha roll' him...this one move destroyed both the trust that my dog had with me, and the trust I had with him; it took months to build that trust back up again, using more positive methods. I would never, ever advocate this as a form of dog training.
I am sorry you had to learn this the hard way but am glad you were able to regain your dogs trust.
16yrs ago when trainers told me the only way I would get control of Jazz's aggression towards dogs she did not know was to alpha roll her and show her who was boss I refused to do it. I felt her issues were all fear based as she was a soft dog with many fears. I was one thing she trusted and there was no way I was going to risk loosing that trust so I would not do it. I felt if I did that next time she saw a dog coming up in her face she would be even more anxious and now she would not only fear the dog but be afraid that I might " flip out" on her again. I am so glad I stuck to what my inner voice was telling me as Jazz and I had 14.5 wonderful years together.
Dominance theory, pack hierarchy models, alpha nonsense, etc. all stem from very flawed research on captive wolves. Countless subsequent studies have proven these ideas to be utter garbage, useless in terms of understanding our pet dogs, as well as extremely counterproductive and even dangerous when applied to dog training.
The alpha roll may be the single most embarrassing trend in the history of dog training. Originally popularized by the Monks of New Skete, the ridiculous technique was unfortunately brought back into fashion by the National Geographic channel t.v. show The Dog Whisperer. You WILL see wolves, dogs, and other canids roll onto their backs to show deference, but the key here is: the roll is VOLUNTARY! You will never see a dog throw another dog to the ground and hold him there to "assert dominance" while the other dog struggles to get up. The "lower ranking" dog will roll himself over onto his back and hold that position of his own accord.
The biggest misunderstanding I still see among dog owners is that dominance is a personality trait. All manner of dog misbehavior is attributed to a dog's sense of "alpha" status, as if our dogs spend their days plotting a hostile takeover of the household by means of peeing on beds, ignoring commands, and jumping on guests to greet them. Dominance can only apply where there is a resource. The vast majority of behavior problems in pet dogs have nothing to do with priority access to resources, they have to do with inadvertently rewarding unwanted behavior.
Some interesting reading on the topic of "dominance" as it applies to pet dogs:
Dominance theory, pack hierarchy models, alpha nonsense, etc. all stem from very flawed research on captive wolves. Countless subsequent studies have proven these ideas to be utter garbage, useless in terms of understanding our pet dogs, as well as extremely counterproductive and even dangerous when applied to dog training.
The alpha roll may be the single most embarrassing trend in the history of dog training. Originally popularized by the Monks of New Skete, the ridiculous technique was unfortunately brought back into fashion by the National Geographic channel t.v. show The Dog Whisperer. You WILL see wolves, dogs, and other canids roll onto their backs to show deference, but the key here is: the roll is VOLUNTARY! You will never see a dog throw another dog to the ground and hold him there to "assert dominance" while the other dog struggles to get up. The "lower ranking" dog will roll himself over onto his back and hold that position of his own accord.
The biggest misunderstanding I still see among dog owners is that dominance is a personality trait. All manner of dog misbehavior is attributed to a dog's sense of "alpha" status, as if our dogs spend their days plotting a hostile takeover of the household by means of peeing on beds, ignoring commands, and jumping on guests to greet them. Dominance can only apply where there is a resource. The vast majority of behavior problems in pet dogs have nothing to do with priority access to resources, they have to do with inadvertently rewarding unwanted behavior.
Some interesting reading on the topic of "dominance" as it applies to pet dogs:
I think many people still believe the alpha dog myth and worse yet even use the alpha roll. If you still buy into this outdated theory and have a facebook account then please look at todays Whole dog Journal post on Facebook as Pat Miller debunks the alpha dog myth. I do not know if there is a way to move the link here so if there is and some one knows how to do so then please do so everyone that is interested can see it by clicking a link instead of going to face book to find it. Thanks!
THANK YOU!!! I read enough over the years to know this is a load of hooey when it comes to dogs in a human household. I refuse to pull the alpha thing on my dogs. Instead, I let them know they are respected, and I want them to respect me, and we create a nice balance in the home. It has worked out really well.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I refused to do it. I felt her issues were all fear based as she was a soft dog with many fears. I was one thing she trusted and there was no way I was going to risk loosing that trust so I would not do it. I felt if I did that next time she saw a dog coming up in her face she would be even more anxious and now she would not only fear the dog but be afraid that I might " flip out" on her again. I am so glad I stuck to what my inner voice was telling me as Jazz and I had 14.5 wonderful years together.
