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When I was still training, I received a call from a lady who was in some serious trouble with her Aussie x. I was told on the phone that dog was displaying some aggressive behavior. HA. When I got to the house and she let me in, here comes this aussie, all riled up, jumped up, put his feet on MY SHOULDERS, and was snarling in my face. LOL, yes, you could see the sweat roll down my face! I asked them to take the dog and gently pull him off me, but not to SAY anything. I didn't want the dog accidentally rewarded by tone of voice (that's a whole 'nother thing) for trying to eat me. The dog then nipped its owners. I knew this was gonna be rough. No "alpha training" was going to help this dog at all--and I have never understood why people think it would. However, 8 weeks later, me and Aussie are walking down the street together, well behaved on a leash, he knew 4 different "tricks" and how to properly behave, all with positive reinforcement. The family got to keep their precious dog because it was in danger of being put to sleep due to aggressiveness (which was learned behavior and since they didn't know how to handle it--it had escalated). I am sure if I tried some sort of alpha technique, I would've got my face bitten off in short order. And yes, this dog lived to a ripe old age, never bit anyone again (family members or otherwise) until he died peacefully at home. But, after that experience, I did, when talking to people over the phone ask them to SPELL out just how aggressive the dog I'm about to meet really is, and not to downplay it! I learned too, people lie sometimes, but dogs NEVER lie!
I think it is sometimes a common mis-perception that people that do not agree with the whole "alpha" thing also do not think their dogs require leadership. It couldn't be further from the truth.
There's leadership based on respect and communication. This is achieved through co-operation - i.e having been shown the correct way via positive reinforcement.
Canines still require leadership, but canines don't require manhandling, threats, intimidation (the whole "alpha" thing) to train them as to what's right/acceptable and what is not. Canines are life's great co-operators, make "the easy way out is the right way out" and they'll take it 100% of the time.
5 horses...your right on the mark.
Reminds of one time I was training one of my past Goldens in a Gym I belonged to. He was a certified Therapy dog. He hated (as most dogs do) the feel of cold metal near his feet and I would have trouble having him sit close to a wheel chair. He had long since belonged to the same gym..even was made member of the month one time...but I digress.....anyway...I would gently lay a 1lb weight on his paws or close to him to get use to the coolness and actual closeness....first day...he kept trying to get away from the weights...he was not having it...(I'll be the first to admit, that dog had a stubborn streak a mile long!!!!!!!!!!)...but with repetition he was soon starting to come around. I had this huge neanderthal creaton come up to me and state: If that were my dog... I would be using a 2 X 4 over his head...He'd be doing it my way in no time! I stated: I use 2X4's on men, not my dogs and moved to another section of the gym. That cracked the surrounding guys up and the guy never came near me or the dog again.
Can't help but think...this guy "thought" he was being the Alpha!
I, too, abhor Cesar Milan's methods. The monks of New Skete, who first developed the 'alpha roll' have since backed off from using the technique.
Everything I've done with training has been through positive techniques. I'm the world's most avid clicker-training fan and sincerely believe that making learning a great experience for the dog makes it fun for all parties.
I was horrified watching Milan from the very first time I saw him and would NEVER recommend his methods. They're potentially very dangerous.
Doesn't Cesar Milan strongly advise for people that are NOT professionals to not try this at HOME.
I really like Milan's ways and for the most part it seems to work out for basic training. I would think if you have an aggressive dog you should ALWAYS consult a professional.
I am interested if Milan's aggressive teachings the only thing you don't agree with or is their others. I was thinking, I just started watching his show a couple of months ago, but doesn't he also encourage positive reinforcement??
I am taking Penn Foster's Obedience dog training course and they teach positive reinforcement.
I am interested if Milan's aggressive teachings the only thing you don't agree with or is their others. I was thinking, I just started watching his show a couple of months ago, but doesn't he also encourage positive reinforcement??
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To me, the whole premise of the theory is fundamentally flawed. It presupposes a language/method of communication that dogs do not use - that's just one of the myriad of things I feel has been disproved.
Here are a couple of further articles debunking the myth:
I personally think that the rise of popularity of this type of training has to do the fact that we now live in a very "immediate" society. We all want instant results... desensitizing, counter conditioning, etc. etc. all take time and patience, which many (most?) dog owners are not willing or perhaps not able to provide.
Besides, it doesn't make for good, exciting television. The one (and only) clip of Mr. Milan I've seen, physically forced a lead-reactive dog to walk next to another dog despite the reactive dog "screaming" stress/anxiety signals and doing everything it could to get away. Did the dog walk beside another dog... well, yes, it did at the end under physical duress (i.e. what did the dog just learn?!). Is the normal/average pet owner able or willing to learn to speak "Dog" and therefore be able to interpret what the dog was saying via body language?. Nope. So Joe or Joanne Public out there watching says, "Oh look, he made the dog, now the dog does, ergo the dog is "fixed."
Just my own soundbite on it all.
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