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Old 02-08-2014, 10:47 PM
 
482 posts, read 834,085 times
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One last thing, anyone who thinks an E collar is abusive does not take the handler into the equation. I love my dogs. A lot. Probably more than 99% of people that love their dogs. But like having children, there are some very tough decisions I have to make as a dog owner. Some of them are unpleasant and upsetting. But again, like children, the reward outweighs the unpleasantness. If you love something the way I love my dogs, you do not let them get killed or cause harm to other animals or potentially humans. It's the responsible thing to do.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:58 PM
 
Location: CA
1,714 posts, read 2,380,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonAndJulie View Post
One last thing, anyone who thinks an E collar is abusive does not take the handler into the equation. I love my dogs. A lot. Probably more than 99% of people that love their dogs. But like having children, there are some very tough decisions I have to make as a dog owner. Some of them are unpleasant and upsetting. But again, like children, the reward outweighs the unpleasantness. If you love something the way I love my dogs, you do not let them get killed or cause harm to other animals or potentially humans. It's the responsible thing to do.
You are correct. We have a bird dog, so hubby has used the e-collar in training. But now, the initial 'beep' is sufficient to get her attention -- to the point that we have to be careful loading the DVD player, because the beep is similar!!

But when you are operating with a dog at such distances, and have to be able to communicate, it's just an important tool to have available. Lots of things can be misused.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Lewes, Delaware
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Good grief, if some of you saw a dog being force fetched you'd probably have a heart attack. Everyone needs to remember whether your dog is a companion or a working dog ( you know getting a dog and using it for what it was bred for) we love our dogs.

I had my Lab and my buddies Chessie that I trained out duck hunting in a frozen bay two weeks ago and they loved it, breaking ice, jumping in the water, and retrieving birds. That's their job, that's what they were bred for, not long walks on leashes, not dog parks not sleeping in my bed or on my couch.

What I see as wrong is watching the Lab become the most popular dog in the world, being over bred, lying around in fenced in yards and being 15 lbs over weight. That's what I call abuse, for any dog.
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Old 04-11-2015, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Paradise CA, that place on fire
1,812 posts, read 1,325,737 times
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"
Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sfemi View Post
Seems like an efficient tool for dog abusers. You have to know with these tools being readily available, then the dog fighters will use them to keep pits In Line, or those that enjoy torturing and abusing animals are going to use it. They shouldn't be used for any reason and shouldn't be available to anyone.
"

I fully disagree. Our German Pincher with separation anxiety would not stop barking whenever we closed the glass door to the yard with him outside. It was the bark collar or another home for him. He got the electronic collar and was able to stay with us for the next 14 years.
The interesting part is that we only used the collar maybe 3 times. He learned super quick not to bark WITHOUT REASON.
We had another dog and purchased a few shock collars later. I always test the collars on my own bare left arm and the most painful is on setting # 10, which is like grabbing a spark plug wire from a running car engine. It hurts, but not as bad as a trip to the dog pound. Having said that, on a setting like # 3 or 4 the e collar does nothing more than gets the attention of the dog, and that is the goal. It's not a torture or punishment at all.

Once the dogs learned what the collar can do, all I had to do was pick it up and start playing with it in my own hand. The dogs quickly became little angels. We call the shock collars "Angel Collar."
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Old 04-12-2015, 02:26 AM
 
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We recently adopted a dog from the shelter that has such high prey drive he takes off full speed when he sees a rabbit, deer or birds, and we just don't exists or him when that drive overtakes his attention.
We live surrounded by sheep, cattle, and horse farms and when he's gotten loose he goes straight to chase them. Clearly, this is why he ended up at the pound.

So we've had a trainer help us start with the e-collar, and I am impressed with its efficacy, and it's lack of pain. Our dog wags his tail while we use it, and loves the training sessions as he is very willing and intelligent (if not on scent). It appears to just get his attention back on us in a pretty gentle way. We haven't used it off leash yet, but am confident it will work and prevent both our dog and neighbors livestock from getting hurt.
Our trainer has used it often for dogs that chase with good success, and all her references said the collar was an amazingly helpful tool.
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Old 04-12-2015, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Sorry if I sound confused, but I've read about those training collars and don't get it.

Say you are training the dog to come. It says you are to ask them to come and using the lowest level to get their attention, push the button. Then you are to release it when they turn towards you and come towards you, correct? If the lowest level doesn't get a positive response and you click on the next level, (from a beep to a shock) wouldn't the shock scare them away from you, rather than towards you?
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Old 04-12-2015, 12:20 PM
 
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I'm pretty inexperienced at this as we are just beginning with it, but our trainer explained that the goal is to keep their attention on you, not the distractions. Your dog MUST know basic commands before starting the e-collar.
So our dog already knows come really well if not distracted by his prey drive, but when he sees a rabbit, or bird, or the horses running and bucking next door, it's like we don't exist. That's the only reason we are using it.

So the trainer has us using it on a long leash and the minute he gets distracted away from us give him the continuos buzz with come command, which immediately gets his attention back on us and he wags his tail and comes running to us, but the buzz stops the minute he turns back to us.

We are to up the anty with harder diistractions every few days.

Then when he obeys really well when distracted, take him off leash in a fenced area where he thinks he's free, but we could still catch him, and let him get a scent and train for being off leash.

I really feel an owner needs an experienced trainer with the e-collar to help start you out because it is very confusing all the timing needs to be just right. My husband and I practiced on each other -- one being the dog, one being the trainer.
Couldn't stop laughing as my husband sits for his treat after such a good recall !!
But it helped us get familiar with all the timing and make our mistakes before working with him.
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Old 04-12-2015, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,570 posts, read 5,977,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
I'm pretty inexperienced at this as we are just beginning with it, but our trainer explained that the goal is to keep their attention on you, not the distractions. Your dog MUST know basic commands before starting the e-collar.
So our dog already knows come really well if not distracted by his prey drive, but when he sees a rabbit, or bird, or the horses running and bucking next door, it's like we don't exist. That's the only reason we are using it.

So the trainer has us using it on a long leash and the minute he gets distracted away from us give him the continuos buzz with come command, which immediately gets his attention back on us and he wags his tail and comes running to us, but the buzz stops the minute he turns back to us.

We are to up the anty with harder diistractions every few days.

Then when he obeys really well when distracted, take him off leash in a fenced area where he thinks he's free, but we could still catch him, and let him get a scent and train for being off leash.

I really feel an owner needs an experienced trainer with the e-collar to help start you out because it is very confusing all the timing needs to be just right. My husband and I practiced on each other -- one being the dog, one being the trainer.
Couldn't stop laughing as my husband sits for his treat after such a good recall !!
But it helped us get familiar with all the timing and make our mistakes before working with him.
Loved your explanation! Does hubby get a bite of T-bone or pizza for a treat? lol
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Old 04-12-2015, 12:58 PM
 
10,832 posts, read 5,531,116 times
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Originally Posted by gouligann View Post
Loved your explanation! Does hubby get a bite of T-bone or pizza for a treat? lol
Chips.....(high-value treat for him)

And then a cold beer when he's finished and resting on "place". Lol
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Old 04-12-2015, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
17,410 posts, read 20,125,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gouligann View Post
Sorry if I sound confused, but I've read about those training collars and don't get it.

Say you are training the dog to come. It says you are to ask them to come and using the lowest level to get their attention, push the button. Then you are to release it when they turn towards you and come towards you, correct? If the lowest level doesn't get a positive response and you click on the next level, (from a beep to a shock) wouldn't the shock scare them away from you, rather than towards you?
You don't use an e-collar when a dog exhibits bad behavior which is what some people mistakenly do. They see their dog doing something bad, so they shock the p*ss out of them. That accomplishes nothing.

You use the e-collar to reinforce what you need the dog to do. For example when training my German Shorthairs hand signals;

1. Use a long check cord- maybe 25-30 feet.
2. Have the e-collar set on a setting 1 below the dogs visable discomfort level.
3. Let the dog meander about.
4. Whistle 2 times, use my hand and point to my right
5. I run right while I administer constant stimulation until the dog turns in the direction I want them to go.
6. Repeat in the same or opposite direction.

They quickly read the whistle and the hand as the command call. I only have to use the e-collar maybe 4 sessions and they have it.

We also have a recall command, which is extremely important. If I need my dogs to come back and heel (maybe they are chasing livestock or something) then I use the same technique as described above, but pull the check cord towards me while shouting HERE, HERE, HERE!!! and giving constant stimulation until the dog is actively heading towards me. For this exercise I will use the most uncomfortable setting because I need that dog to recall like RIGHT NOW. There is no other option for that dog.

It's extremely important to teach a field dog to recall. If they wind up chasing a horse or livestock they can be shot on sight by the rancher. No ifs ands or buts about it.

I see a lot of sloppy dogs in the field and it's a problem. I hunted with a guy least year who could not control his dog. The dog constantly busted birds that my dogs were pointing, or trying to 'play' while they were working. It actually set my male BACK in training. He felt he needed to bust birds otherwise the other dog would do it anyway.. Not good.
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