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A few months ago, Pebbles had a partial tear of her cruciate ligament in her right knee. After spending about $400 and several weeks of Adequan injections and rest, she stopped limping and all was well. That is until 2 weeks ago, she was walking around the living room, turned around and her ligament was torn more and the limping returned. Xrays were taken and reviewed by our vet and surgeon.
Our vet recommend surgery. The TTA surgery for her size (75 lb), her age (7 years) and condition (blood work was good) is quoted at $3k. This includes a $2k surgeon fee, follow up visit and flushing out and giving extra electrolytes to prepare her kidneys and liver for anesthesia.
About 4 years ago, I paid for the same surgery for her other knee for $2600.00 including overnight stay.
Due to unforeseen circumstances, I had to spend my emergency fund before Pebbles tore her knee. I will pay for the $3k surgery.... I called several other clinics for estimates and they all refused to do so, insisting that they must examine the dog (at my expense) even though I am willing to show them her medical records and xrays.
This makes me wonder with increasing costs in living, food, human and vet medical care vs stagnant or little pay increase per year for most people, what will happen to our pets in the future? In the next 10 years, would pet owners accrue more debt than today to care for their pets? Or keep or adopt less pets per household?
I am going to give you some good advice, and you can take it or leave it.
You must know by now that vets are a business, and are out to make money.
My German Shepherd tore his acl(complete break) last October.
Like you, I went to the vet, and was given a high price for the operation.
The vet said there was no guarantee the wound would be"fixed" by an operation.
I left, somewhat dismayed as to what benefit the surgery would be.
Once the vet realized I didn't like the high cost, he said my 7 year old Shepherd would be at risk because of it's age.
Needless to say, I no longer use that vet, and I had been going to him for over twenty years.
I went on line, thinking maybe a brace would be the way to go.
I came across a site that emphatically stated "DO NOT PUT A BRACE ON YOUR DOG".
It mentioned a process called "comprehensive management", and along with it, the fact that an acl tear WILL heal itself over a period of time, without braces, or surgery.
Before going any further, you need to be aware, comprehensive management requires a good deal of time on your part.
So let's get started on this program, and see if it is something you want to explore.
First off, the first thing you will notice besides the limp is, it is probably swollen in the area of the tear.
For this, and ice pack, or gel pack placed on the area twice daily for fifteen minutes will help bring down the swelling.
If there is no swelling, just soreness, a short time with heat is the best to ease the pain.
Speaking of pain, inflammation is what causes pain, so the idea is to deal with the inflammation in order to ease the pain.
I suggest you give the dog Gluesomine/Chondrotin tablets, available at pet food stores.
Following dozing instruction for the weight of your dog.
This takes away the inflammation, which in turn takes away the pain.
If your dog is elderly, it is a good idea to keep it on this for the remainder of it's life.
It really helps with joints on older dogs.
One pain killer to stay away from is rymidal, (generic (Carprofen)Not good for prolonged use.
If you feel you would also like to use a medication for pain, ask you vet to prescribe something other than what I mentioned.
For heat, you need a hydroculator.
Don't go out and buy one, make your own.
Take a face cloth, run it under the faucet to get it wet, then ring it out slightly, so it is still wet, but not dripping.
Place it in the microwave for about a minute, then remove it,(careful it is veyr hot) and place it in a thick towel, then fold the towel over, until you can just about feel the heat coming through the towel.
Get the dog to lay down, and place the towel on the wound area, checking often to make sure it is comfortably warm, and not hot enough to burn the dogs skin.
This did wonders for my Shepherd.
They actually like it, as it relaxes them.
The heat treatment was once a day for two weeks, and I could already see improvement, because he was limping less.
Now this is extremely important to promote healing,SHORT WALKS ONLY.
I called them "sniffing walks", and they are slow, with absolutely no fast walking, or running.
For the first three weeks, no more than a couple of hundred yards.
As the leg heals, you can take longer walks, but don't exert the dog.
Now, absolutely no jumping on and off of furniture.
This you will have to be very patient with, as dogs like to jump on furniture.
Another thing you will need to consider is, no climbing steps.
If your dog is a large breed, you will have to substitute with a ramp of some kind.
If you do all the things I have mentioned here, you can expect complete recovery in about 7 or 8 months.
That is just about the recovery time if the dog had surgery, or wore a brace.
Today, my Shepherd is as good as if it never happened.
I think this is a bit alarmist. It always seems when we go through something that it's a cause for concern, but usually it's not.
I think the important question is why is your dog tearing these ligaments? Without this issue there wouldn't be a concern of high vet cost.
Vet care does go up, like everything else, but not all regions or even practices experience the same inflation.
This is a total of $5,400 for two surgeries on one dog. That is astronomical and I wonder how much is the surgeon getting paid for their experience and doing the procedure? I probably might spend $5,000 on a dog for their enture lifetime of care, for everything, not just vet!
This particular surgery went up, but did all vet care go up? (At this vet or even in your area) I've experienced little to no increase (depends what it is) at my vets office over the last 4 years.
To answer this
This makes me wonder with increasing costs in living, food, human and vet medical care vs stagnant or little pay increase per year for most people, what will happen to our pets in the future? In the next 10 years, would pet owners accrue more debt than today to care for their pets? Or keep or adopt less pets per household?
I think that it will vary by owner, just as it does now. Those with disposable income who want to pay the cost will with no issue, those who have savings will use that, anyone who doesn't have the money will pay by credit and acquire debt, those who can't afford it or don't want to pay will put their dog to sleep (if he/she must be) or let things go untreated and probably receive less preventative care.
I'm sure vet care for many people is more expensive now then it was 10 years ago, but people still continue to own dogs or other pets. I'm certain that I will pay more for some things for my 4 month old vs what I paid for my 12 year old.
Rising prices is not limited to vet care. Dog food cost more now than 10 years and it will probably cost more in another 10 years. Grocery, including meat (so if feeding raw) cost more compared to 10 years ago (believe be I remember even 5 years ago) than it does now and will surely rise in another 10 years. There are a couple places which have raised the cost of puppy/dog training sessions also.
Vet care is expensive but the cost is what it is. I don't blame vets for being professionals and wanting to be paid accordingly. I recently spent 5 grand on my dog through numerous tests, x-rays, ultra sound and a surgery only to find out he probably doesn't have more than a few months to live.
At some point I want to adopt another, but now I don't think I can due to the cost involved for medical care. I can't continue to use up my savings or go into debt.
Last edited by marino760; 10-11-2017 at 08:18 PM..
APBT_Samara suggested finding the cause of torn acl's.
Sometimes it is not that easy.
In my case, it was obvious.
My dog jumped off the four foot deck, instead of using the steps, but in many cases, it could be something as simple as walking on uneven ground that causes a tear.
Walking off a curb could be another.
Jumping into a vehicle is another reason, rough play is still another.
With rough play, it concerns me how many play Frisbee with their dog, and the dog jumps in the air to catch the Frisbee.
That most certainly could cause a tear.
The reasons are many.
Some of these can be prevented, and some can't.
In my case, the Shepherd will never just jump of the deck like he did when he tore the acl.
I removed the steps to the deck, and added a long ramp for him to get onto the deck.
Built a ramp for him to get into the pickup when we are going to the park.
Lowered his favorite furniture so he can walk on it rather than jump.
We can never be 100% sure our dogs won't suffer from these tears, but just do our best to try and prevent a future incident.
Yah vet care is expensive and keeps going up. Vet school does not come cheap. Good help is not cheap as what type of assistance is a vet going to get if they do not pay staff well? I am sure their insurance keeps climbing as do their other expenses.
I think we the consumers are to blame too as we now want everything done for our pets and equipment to do those things is expensive and when vets do not have that equipment so can not do whatever people change vets. And these days people want to sue vets when things do not go as they want them too. Sadly it becomes a catch 22 situation.
If you own a pet I think you need to be responsible in the prevention of illness instead of complaining about the price of vet care. I know everyone reading this is thinking "but I am" yet when I am out with my dogs the amount of overweight dogs I see is very high and that is not being proactive in the health of a pet. Sadly many people are killing their own pets with what they call love by over feeding their pets.
One of my own dogs is a sight hound and it is amazing how many people tell me I need to feed him more. Yeah he is thin but that is how sighthounds are, it is a genetic thing and my vets loves the fact that at 9 he is still such a lean muscle boy. He is what his breed should look like. My mixed breed is also thin as I really believe being on the lower side does help prevent many chronic illnesses so people comment on her being too thin too just not as often because we have gotten too use to seeing over weight dogs as normal.
APBT_Samara suggested finding the cause of torn acl's.
Sometimes it is not that easy.
In my case, it was obvious.
My dog jumped off the four foot deck, instead of using the steps, but in many cases, it could be something as simple as walking on uneven ground that causes a tear.
Walking off a curb could be another.
Jumping into a vehicle is another reason, rough play is still another.
With rough play, it concerns me how many play Frisbee with their dog, and the dog jumps in the air to catch the Frisbee.
That most certainly could cause a tear.
The reasons are many.
Some of these can be prevented, and some can't
My dogs play rough together, run, jump, have played frisbee, they run and jump frequently using the flirt pole. I've never had a dog with such injury, KNOCK ON WOOD as I hope never to, but I do believe its more than just an injury that happens. Likely it's specific to the dog and some case studies have shown it to be familial. There are other factors people have suggested, but it needs to actually be looked at to know how much impact it has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashdog
Yah vet care is expensive and keeps going up. Vet school does not come cheap. Good help is not cheap as what type of assistance is a vet going to get if they do not pay staff well? I am sure their insurance keeps climbing as do their other expenses.
I think we the consumers are to blame too as we now want everything done for our pets and equipment to do those things is expensive and when vets do not have that equipment so can not do whatever people change vets. And these days people want to sue vets when things do not go as they want them too. Sadly it becomes a catch 22 situation.
If you own a pet I think you need to be responsible in the prevention of illness instead of complaining about the price of vet care. I know everyone reading this is thinking "but I am" yet when I am out with my dogs the amount of overweight dogs I see is very high and that is not being proactive in the health of a pet. Sadly many people are killing their own pets with what they call love by over feeding their pets.
One of my own dogs is a sight hound and it is amazing how many people tell me I need to feed him more. Yeah he is thin but that is how sighthounds are, it is a genetic thing and my vets loves the fact that at 9 he is still such a lean muscle boy. He is what his breed should look like. My mixed breed is also thin as I really believe being on the lower side does help prevent many chronic illnesses so people comment on her being too thin too just not as often because we have gotten too use to seeing over weight dogs as normal.
I get that too sometimes. My dogs are leaned and well muscled, not too skinny or starving, but people are used to fat dogs so they think my dogs are too skinny.
Thus far (fingers crossed) I have not had to deal with torn ACLs. However, while some ACL incidents may be by sheer accident of landing or turning badly, I do think that the overall soundness and fitness of the dog comes into play. With athletic active energetic dogs that may be more prone to ACL injuries, I think it is worthwhile to do preventive/pro-active body conditioning. Same for dogs that are prone to back or hip issues or senior dogs.
There are two companies that market products for dogs that engage in sports e.g. agility or flyball or for dogs that are inherently unsound that need to condition, and/or build muscle stability and balance.
Both companies have DVDs explaining how to use their products- the key is to go slowly and work consistently to build body conditioning and muscle stability. The cost of the products is low relative to the possible expense for surgery, rehabilitation, and healing, not to mention the stress on the dog of an injury.
One caution with using either of these products: the dog's work on these devices must be shaped so that the dog can find its own balance on the device- as opposed to the owner placing the dog onto the device and insisting the dog hold that pose. The reason for this is because when the dog finds its own balance it naturally does so safely and works the muscles appropriately.
The salesman told me that he sees a lot of people using Fitpaws incorrectly because they either do inappropriate exercises or push their dogs too fast (these are meant to condition; it isn't a race). So one of the DVDs is needed in order to learn how to use these devices correctly.
Note: many of the youtube videos show people using FitPaws incorrectly, so I would caution to take note which are authorized by FitPaws and which are just random people who don't necessarily know what they are doing.
Thus far (fingers crossed) I have not had to deal with torn ACLs. However, while some ACL incidents may be by sheer accident of landing or turning badly, I do think that the overall soundness and fitness of the dog comes into play. With athletic active energetic dogs that may be more prone to ACL injuries, I think it is worthwhile to do preventive/pro-active body conditioning. Same for dogs that are prone to back or hip issues or senior dogs.
There are two companies that market products for dogs that engage in sports e.g. agility or flyball or for dogs that are inherently unsound that need to condition, and/or build muscle stability and balance.
Both companies have DVDs explaining how to use their products- the key is to go slowly and work consistently to build body conditioning and muscle stability. The cost of the products is low relative to the possible expense for surgery, rehabilitation, and healing, not to mention the stress on the dog of an injury.
One caution with using either of these products: the dog's work on these devices must be shaped so that the dog can find its own balance on the device- as opposed to the owner placing the dog onto the device and insisting the dog hold that pose. The reason for this is because when the dog finds its own balance it naturally does so safely and works the muscles appropriately.
The salesman told me that he sees a lot of people using Fitpaws incorrectly because they either do inappropriate exercises or push their dogs too fast (these are meant to condition; it isn't a race). So one of the DVDs is needed in order to learn how to use these devices correctly.
Note: many of the youtube videos show people using FitPaws incorrectly, so I would caution to take note which are authorized by FitPaws and which are just random people who don't necessarily know what they are doing.
Thanks so much for posting this. We've just recently adopted a dog who has a torn ACL. He has been limping/hobbling on three legs for some time before he entered the shelter. No one is sure how he sustained the injury or where, as he was found as a stray in a field. It is evident that had he received adequate vet care, things wouldn't be so bad. We're also confronted with a pricey surgery ($3500, not sure if this amount includes follow up physical therapy, etc.) Our aim is to get the surgery done next year, but if Fitpaws can maybe help we're open to that too. While she wasn't hawking surgery as the only option, our vet didn't mention these devices either. Ultimately, we want whatever it takes to give him a good QOL.
We've just recently adopted a dog who has a torn ACL. He has been limping/hobbling on three legs for some time before he entered the shelter.... We're also confronted with a pricey surgery ($3500, not sure if this amount includes follow up physical therapy, etc.) Our aim is to get the surgery done next year, but if Fitpaws can maybe help we're open to that too. While she wasn't hawking surgery as the only option, our vet didn't mention these devices either. Ultimately, we want whatever it takes to give him a good QOL.
Most vets don't do much with physical therapy or rehab.
I would definitely get a second opinion on the surgery to be sure that surgery will have satisfactory results with an older injury, and as well, to see if there might be other options so that you don't have to put this old boy through surgery.
Before beginning work with FitPaws on your own, I suggest seeing if there is a canine rehabilitation center near you. Often state university veterinary teaching hospitals will have their own rehabilitation department. They will also not only be able to assess the injury but also will give you exercises to do that will strengthen his muscles appropriately and help re-balance his body. I suspect that while the original injury is bothering him, other parts of his body have had to compensate, so rehabilitation may require a more comprehensive approach than "just" focusing on original injury.
Many rehab department are already working with FitPaws, but there are other forms of rehabilitation that will strengthen an injury like this as well, e.g. controlled swimming and/or slow incremental work on an underwater treadmill.
Good luck with your new boy.
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