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Old 09-23-2018, 09:23 AM
 
22 posts, read 15,856 times
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As a dog lover, a recovering boxer owner and an owner of two happy-go-lucky Australian Shepherds roughhousing behind my back as a type, here's my take on the subject.

Steer clear of mixed breed dogs. The most important trait of a dog is its disposition and one cannot judge a mutt's disposition by its looks. Case in point: a pit/lab mix may look like a pitbull, making you neighbors uncomfortable, but behave like a lab, or worse - look like a lab, lulling the neighbors in a false sense of security, but behave like a pitbull.

Stay away from "rescue" dogs. Adopting a dog from a shelter s akin to bringing home a person from a homeless shelter.

Purebred dogs are the way to go, as long as one picks a healthy breed compatible with one's lifestyle. A good predictor of a breed's health is its average lifespan.

I completely agree with the op wrt to brachycephalic breeds.

Don't get a pitbull. I have seen too many media reports of a pitbull attacking a family member. Dogs do not attack family members, wild beast do.

Don't get a guard dog (e.g. german shepherd, doberman, et.al) unless you really need one. If I needed a dog for personal protection, I would get a large livestock guardian instead.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:42 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,720,029 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiero2 View Post
Those of you who have read my past posts will, perhaps, remember that I have sometimes objected to the AKC, and AKC breeders. The primary reason is because breeding, the AKC way, has led to MORE breed-specific health problems, not less.

As a matter of fact, thinking about dogs as BREEDS is partly responsible for this. We should be thinking of dogs as types - and a type can cover several breeds - and allowing out-cross breeding on a regular basis. For the health of the dogs.

But I came to write this post because something I was doing led me to a particular website, and I found the dogs pictured there to be so disgusting physically - to the point that they are obscene examples of vanity breeding.

The dogs I'm looking at are Old English Bulldogs, and their brachycephalic snouts are so extreme that these dogs are, essentially, crippled - from birth.

Someone is intentionally breeding dogs to accentuate those crippling features. That is obscene. But breeders who do exactly this sort of breeding are - I don't know what to say. They are many. They were here 50 years ago, and they will be here 50 years from now. But I do think a lot more people should be speaking out as to how misguided they are.

I don't remember how I stumbled on the photos that got me so irate that I wanted to post this. But here are websites for the breeder who is practicing these vile breeding habits.

Don't get me wrong - the dogs are certainly lovable and wonderful - THEY don't know they have been crippled. But breeding practices that enhance such crippling features? Is a different story. The nicest thing I can say about the humans involved is that they are misguided. Which is far weaker than the words I internally use to describe them.

https://polishedpuccis.com/

https://www.facebook.com/polishedpuccis/
I object to breeding to body extremes, not necessarily to the AKC. There are plenty of breeders of breeds not associated with the AKC who breed the same way, and many breeds within the AKC who are not bred to such a degree.

Holding the AKC or the EKC ( who take a lot of the blame for English bulldogs in particular) to blame is ignoring the real problem. Honestly I have just as much of an issue with breeding to physical standard and ignoring the mental and behavioral one, and I say that as someone who had border collies registered not with the AKC but ASDA.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:58 AM
 
3,187 posts, read 1,507,450 times
Reputation: 3213
Quote:
Originally Posted by algo View Post
I completely agree with the op wrt to brachycephalic breeds.
Yep, this is the saddest thing. I don't want to put any dog owners on the defensive, so I will just mention they are breeding "Franken Cats" with the same issue. The poor things faces are so smashed in that they are at risk of drowning in their own water bowl! Those fountains are popular as they can't even drink normally. Just google "water bowls for flat faced cats" if someone reading this doesn't believe me.

Obviously tons of breathing issues too. https://icatcare.org/news/mounting-e...-are-suffering

As far as the newer bulldogs go, I will say something; They can't be bred without human assistance, they can't give birth without a C section and once they are born they have every health problem imaginable to help take them back out of this world. It's just crazy and totally inhumane what people have done to this breed.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:20 AM
 
255 posts, read 168,609 times
Reputation: 812
Quote:
Originally Posted by algo View Post
As a dog lover, a recovering boxer owner and an owner of two happy-go-lucky Australian Shepherds roughhousing behind my back as a type, here's my take on the subject.

Steer clear of mixed breed dogs. The most important trait of a dog is its disposition and one cannot judge a mutt's disposition by its looks. Case in point: a pit/lab mix may look like a pitbull, making you neighbors uncomfortable, but behave like a lab, or worse - look like a lab, lulling the neighbors in a false sense of security, but behave like a pitbull.

Stay away from "rescue" dogs. Adopting a dog from a shelter s akin to bringing home a person from a homeless shelter.

Purebred dogs are the way to go, as long as one picks a healthy breed compatible with one's lifestyle. A good predictor of a breed's health is its average lifespan.

I completely agree with the op wrt to brachycephalic breeds.

Don't get a pitbull. I have seen too many media reports of a pitbull attacking a family member. Dogs do not attack family members, wild beast do.

Don't get a guard dog (e.g. german shepherd, doberman, et.al) unless you really need one. If I needed a dog for personal protection, I would get a large livestock guardian instead.
~applause~ I completely agree! And if you really need a dog for personal protection, I suggest you evaluate your life choices. I do think there are many great dogs that have been bought from a shelter, but nowadays, it is definitely a crapshoot, especially if you cannot clearly see the breed and spend some time around the dog. I've had a lot of foster dogs that made the new owners very happy, but they all had either physical (horrible conformation) or behavioral (no other dogs) that I would never want to live with long term. I used to not mind helping shelters dogs find a home (not anymore), but I've never considered one for myself and I do *usually* try to steer others to a good breeder.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,617 posts, read 6,537,463 times
Reputation: 18443
Quote:
Originally Posted by algo View Post
As a dog lover, a recovering boxer owner and an owner of two happy-go-lucky Australian Shepherds roughhousing behind my back as a type, here's my take on the subject.

Steer clear of mixed breed dogs. The most important trait of a dog is its disposition and one cannot judge a mutt's disposition by its looks. Case in point: a pit/lab mix may look like a pitbull, making you neighbors uncomfortable, but behave like a lab, or worse - look like a lab, lulling the neighbors in a false sense of security, but behave like a pitbull.

Stay away from "rescue" dogs. Adopting a dog from a shelter s akin to bringing home a person from a homeless shelter.

Purebred dogs are the way to go, as long as one picks a healthy breed compatible with one's lifestyle. A good predictor of a breed's health is its average lifespan.

I completely agree with the op wrt to brachycephalic breeds.

Don't get a pitbull. I have seen too many media reports of a pitbull attacking a family member. Dogs do not attack family members, wild beast do.

Don't get a guard dog (e.g. german shepherd, doberman, et.al) unless you really need one. If I needed a dog for personal protection, I would get a large livestock guardian instead.
RE: bold and underlined. I haven't bought a purebred dog since 4 dogs ago. Up until then I had 4 purebreds (2 labs, an Irish setter and a toy poodle)

I disagree with this blanket statement. Since the purebreds, (now long gone) we have had 3 mixed breeds (but SPECIFIC mixed breeds= Yorkie-poodle mixes) and they are and have been wonderful pets with no health problems. If I and hubby were to want another dog, we would still get a Yorkie-poo. No one could tell us that a purebred is better for us because we adore the mixture.

Don't knock mixed breeds. Ours are the sweetest, best dogs suitable for our lifestyle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the other underlined statement you made: if no one bought shelter dogs, do you think it would be wonderful for ALL these poor homeless "rescue" dogs to be put down? The shelters would have animal lovers and animal rights people down their throats in an instant.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:52 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,720,029 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by algo View Post
As a dog lover, a recovering boxer owner and an owner of two happy-go-lucky Australian Shepherds roughhousing behind my back as a type, here's my take on the subject.

Steer clear of mixed breed dogs. The most important trait of a dog is its disposition and one cannot judge a mutt's disposition by its looks. Case in point: a pit/lab mix may look like a pitbull, making you neighbors uncomfortable, but behave like a lab, or worse - look like a lab, lulling the neighbors in a false sense of security, but behave like a pitbull.

Stay away from "rescue" dogs. Adopting a dog from a shelter s akin to bringing home a person from a homeless shelter.

Purebred dogs are the way to go, as long as one picks a healthy breed compatible with one's lifestyle. A good predictor of a breed's health is its average lifespan.

I completely agree with the op wrt to brachycephalic breeds.

Don't get a pitbull. I have seen too many media reports of a pitbull attacking a family member. Dogs do not attack family members, wild beast do.

Don't get a guard dog (e.g. german shepherd, doberman, et.al) unless you really need one. If I needed a dog for personal protection, I would get a large livestock guardian instead.
I couldn’t disagree more.

My two “best†dogs in terms of that lifetime dog and sports were both from the pound. One was a 3/4 border collie and 1/4 cattle dog and the other is a Sheltie, though due to a shaved coat we thought when we adopted her she was a Sheltie corgi mix. Both had/have beautiful temperaments, excellent train ability and so on. Going to a shelter or rescue just means you need to be more dog savvy about finding the right fit. As for rescue all of my other dogs have come from rescue, even if it was breed specific.

And while I have never bought a dog, I am certainly not against it, but the idea that all breeders or all breeder bred dogs are wonderful is patently and demonstrably false.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:02 PM
 
1,483 posts, read 1,381,376 times
Reputation: 4995
Quote:
Originally Posted by algo View Post
As a dog lover, a recovering boxer owner and an owner of two happy-go-lucky Australian Shepherds roughhousing behind my back as a type, here's my take on the subject.

Steer clear of mixed breed dogs. The most important trait of a dog is its disposition and one cannot judge a mutt's disposition by its looks. Case in point: a pit/lab mix may look like a pitbull, making you neighbors uncomfortable, but behave like a lab, or worse - look like a lab, lulling the neighbors in a false sense of security, but behave like a pitbull.

Stay away from "rescue" dogs. Adopting a dog from a shelter s akin to bringing home a person from a homeless shelter.

Purebred dogs are the way to go, as long as one picks a healthy breed compatible with one's lifestyle. A good predictor of a breed's health is its average lifespan.

I completely agree with the op wrt to brachycephalic breeds.

Don't get a pitbull. I have seen too many media reports of a pitbull attacking a family member. Dogs do not attack family members, wild beast do.

Don't get a guard dog (e.g. german shepherd, doberman, et.al) unless you really need one. If I needed a dog for personal protection, I would get a large livestock guardian instead.
So many fallacies in this post, imo. Steer clear of mixed breeds? First, you cannot judge a purebred's disposition entirely by it's looks or breed. For instance, there was a Labrador retriever who lived a couple of blocks from me who was extremely aggressive; if you walked by their yard and he was outside, he'd bare his teeth and run at you, slamming into the fence in his efforts to attack. Now, does this mean that all labs are aggressive? Absolutely not. And the same goes for mixed breeds. Some of the best dogs I ever met (actually, most) were of mixed parentage. Writing off any dog of any breed, mixed or not, is doing all dogs a huge disservice.

Stay away from rescue dogs? Again, one of the biggest fallacies that shelters face today. People somehow got it into their heads years ago that a dog in a shelter is there because of some bad reason...the dog was uncontrollable, aggressive, insecure, untrainable...you name it. Yet the number one reason why dogs - great dogs - wind up in shelters is because people simply look at them as disposable items. There are also dogs there who were given up because peoples' situations changed; heartbreaking cases where the owner could no longer afford them or were physically unable to take care of their pets. But no matter the reason, a dog at a shelter (imo) recognizes when someone rescues them. Some have issues when they are adopted, many don't. But to say that rescue dogs aren't worth saving? Bull@#$%@#$%.

Pit bulls...there's a sweeping 'all pit bulls are vicious monsters' belief out there. Yes, there are a lot of reports of dog attacks, with pit bulls at the top of the list. But I do wonder, is this because pit bulls are inherently aggressive and cannot be trusted? Or is it because of the reasons behind all of the attacks? One would have to examine all dog (breed) attacks, examine how the dog was raised, whether the family who owned the dog knew how to socialize the dog, how the dog was living (e.g., as a family member, taught household rules, tied up outside all day, children taught to respect the pet, etc. etc.). I'm not convinced at all that any breed can be swept under one huge umbrella of 'vicious' without specific reason. I've met a great many pit bulls who were gentle, loving, creatures. Many years ago Rottweilers were at the top of the 'all dogs of this breed are vicious'; years before that, it was all German shepherds. It seems that pit bulls are suffering from the 'flavour of the day', being a popular breed to own by many who don't know how to properly raise a dog. In my opinion.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:19 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,720,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassetluv View Post

Stay away from rescue dogs? Again, one of the biggest fallacies that shelters face today. People somehow got it into their heads years ago that a dog in a shelter is there because of some bad reason...the dog was uncontrollable, aggressive, insecure, untrainable...you name it. Yet the number one reason why dogs - great dogs - wind up in shelters is because people simply look at them as disposable items. There are also dogs there who were given up because peoples' situations changed; heartbreaking cases where the owner could no longer afford them or were physically unable to take care of their pets. But no matter the reason, a dog at a shelter (imo) recognizes when someone rescues them. Some have issues when they are adopted, many don't. But to say that rescue dogs aren't worth saving? Bull@#$%@#$%.
My current pound pup, ended up in the pound because the owner was a breeder whose husband died, and then fell on hard financial times. She was an older woman who ended up living in a motel with 4 of her dogs (including the one who would become mine) when she had a heart attack and was hospitalized for several weeks. With no one to take her dogs she had no choice but to surrender them. As she had no permanent home the humane society would not give the dogs back. Its a damn tragedy, but her dogs were all lovely well adjusted and well cared for right up until she went into the hospital.

My other shelter dog was a border collie who was a four time loser meaning she was returned to the shelter 4 times by the time she was a year old. There was nothing horribly wrong with her, but like most border collies she had high energy needs, and need a seasoned dog owner to deal with her stubborn, bossiness. Their loss my gain. She was a great dog, despite being from a shelter.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:49 PM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 2 days ago)
 
35,604 posts, read 17,927,273 times
Reputation: 50626
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Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
Your rant against the AKC would have been stronger if the Olde English Bulldogge were an AKC breed, which it is not.
Here is the AKC Bulldog, in a youtube produced in the AKC series.

A rose by any other name . . .



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xChLEKVbBw
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Old 09-23-2018, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
3,696 posts, read 2,893,180 times
Reputation: 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by motownnative View Post
Yep, this is the saddest thing. I don't want to put any dog owners on the defensive, so I will just mention they are breeding "Franken Cats" with the same issue. The poor things faces are so smashed in that they are at risk of drowning in their own water bowl! Those fountains are popular as they can't even drink normally. Just google "water bowls for flat faced cats" if someone reading this doesn't believe me.

Obviously tons of breathing issues too. https://icatcare.org/news/mounting-e...-are-suffering

As far as the newer bulldogs go, I will say something; They can't be bred without human assistance, they can't give birth without a C section and once they are born they have every health problem imaginable to help take them back out of this world. It's just crazy and totally inhumane what people have done to this breed.
I've seen the poor cats I personally don't see why people find the look appealing; it looks like someone took the cat and smashed its face in. I knew someone who had a cat with one of these extreme brachycephalic heads and felt so bad because the cat had so much more trouble eating/drinking in comparison with her one regular faced cat. The short-faced cat also got winded much quicker than the cat with the regular face. As someone who loves cats I find it disgusting that some people would deliberately breed for characteristics that make it hard for the cats to do simple survival functions like eat and drink.

All of mine are rescues and have always been but the most attractive one I've ever had was a long-faced Siamese that someone let out at our corner lot.

I agree that it's also very cruel what people have done to the newer bulldogs. You know it's bad when they can't even mate or be born without medical intervention and have an average life span of around 6 years.
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