A couple of comments on why I object to AKC breeders (shepherd, bulldogs)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Those of you who have read my past posts will, perhaps, remember that I have sometimes objected to the AKC, and AKC breeders. The primary reason is because breeding, the AKC way, has led to MORE breed-specific health problems, not less.
As a matter of fact, thinking about dogs as BREEDS is partly responsible for this. We should be thinking of dogs as types - and a type can cover several breeds - and allowing out-cross breeding on a regular basis. For the health of the dogs.
But I came to write this post because something I was doing led me to a particular website, and I found the dogs pictured there to be so disgusting physically - to the point that they are obscene examples of vanity breeding.
The dogs I'm looking at are Old English Bulldogs, and their brachycephalic snouts are so extreme that these dogs are, essentially, crippled - from birth.
Someone is intentionally breeding dogs to accentuate those crippling features. That is obscene. But breeders who do exactly this sort of breeding are - I don't know what to say. They are many. They were here 50 years ago, and they will be here 50 years from now. But I do think a lot more people should be speaking out as to how misguided they are.
I don't remember how I stumbled on the photos that got me so irate that I wanted to post this. But here are websites for the breeder who is practicing these vile breeding habits.
Don't get me wrong - the dogs are certainly lovable and wonderful - THEY don't know they have been crippled. But breeding practices that enhance such crippling features? Is a different story. The nicest thing I can say about the humans involved is that they are misguided. Which is far weaker than the words I internally use to describe them.
I fully agree with you on this. It's such a shame to see that dogs are being to deliberately have traits that will at some point or another negatively impact their quality of life. Bulldogs are a prime example of this as you have pointed out; breathing problems are common with them and the very large head makes birth without medical intervention pretty much an impossibility.
Many larger breeds suffer from early onset arthritis and hip or elbow dysplasia. The GSD once had a straight back and walked on its feet; now it has a sloped back and is nearly a hock walker. Years of breeding to AKC standards certainly has not helped the majority of dog breeds in the least
'Misguided' is a nice way to put it
The breeds today look far different than they did 100 years ago but they didn't have the problems they do now...this was very interesting:
I thought the Olde English are supposed to be healthier than English bulldogs? The first link that the OP had, my Olde English has a face similar to their dog named Yoda. The vet recently said my dogs face is a work of art! Mr Darcy is healthy and he can actually run, not waddle like those poor English bulldogs.
So every AKC breeder is ruining their breed? Way to generalize....
I never said that and don't put words into my mouth. However, I stand behind a general condemnation of AKC breeding for two reasons. First, it is closed studbook breeding. At some point people in general, and probably AKC people, are going to realize this is a massive mistake. Why? Because it inevitably leads to exactly the sort of expansion of breed-specific health issues that we see today. It is not a question of "if proper breeding techniques are followed". A closed gene pool leads to health problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz22
I thought the Olde English are supposed to be healthier than English bulldogs? The first link that the OP had, my Olde English has a face similar to their dog named Yoda. The vet recently said my dogs face is a work of art! Mr Darcy is healthy and he can actually run, not waddle like those poor English bulldogs.
Even vets can be wrong. I would suggest you read up a bit on how brachycephaly alters the palate and skull structures. One of my favorite vets, now retired, who mostly agreed with me, loved his pugs, breathing issues and all. These dogs are still dogs, who love us and we can love them - but it is obscene to breed to standards that are known to compromise the health of future generations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke
Your rant against the AKC would have been stronger if the Olde English Bulldogge were an AKC breed, which it is not.
You are right, my error. But as you will have read by the time you get to this point, it does not change my primary message. It's not just AKC, but they are the largest organization, and as such, they are responsible for promoting and maintaining the standards that led to this pickle. They are the prime example of "purebred" dogs, breed standards of appearance, and closed studbook breeding. Thinking of dogs as breeds that can be "pure", standards of appearance, and closed studbooks are exactly the practices and culture that made the collie (once "Standard" collie, now "Rough") stupid, the German Shepherd walk on its hocks, and bulldogs that have to have caesareans to give birth.
Dog "breeds" have only been with us for a couple hundred years. Breeding dogs (and other animals) for appearance is a lot older, by thousands of years, but only became the dominant force when breeds became the popular thing - over the past 150 years or so. My little rant, and my opinion, won't change the fact that people will always breed for appearance. But hopefully it will wake a person or two up to what I see as fact - that the primary organization promoting "purebred" breeds, by the very nature of what they call "purebred", is encouraging a culture that is bad for the very dogs they claim to be protecting. I see more than plenty of evidence of this.
I don't go looking for reasons to rant, or to pick arguments. Taz22 loves his dog that looks like one on the pages I linked. I'm sure I would think Taz's dog a marvelous one myself. But to see that extremely shortened snout? When taken by itself, it is obscene as a standard of appearance to emulate. The extremity of that particular trait in these dogs - and that someone is breeding them for that appearance disgusts me.
Your rant against the AKC would have been stronger if the Olde English Bulldogge were an AKC breed, which it is not.
Exactly! And I find it odd that the issue is with the AKC as they do NOT set the breed standards. They have nothing to do with that. The breed standards are set by each breed's club, e.g. the Kerry Blue Terrier standards are set by the United States Kerry Blue Terrier Club, the Minature Schnauzer standard is set by the American Miniature Schnauzer Club. While there are many changes I wish the AKC would make and enforce, I 'll take the AKC any day over the UKC! I have run across a couple people bragging that their dog had one in conformation at a UKC show and their dog was an absolute trainwreck! I told someone that I need to have my dog evaluated before I put too much time into her conformation training to make sure she even should be shown (I am not knowledgeable enough about this) and their response was, "If you can't show her in AKC, you should show UKC"! Uh, NO! If she isn't good enough to show in AKC, I just won't show her. AKC is it if you are serious about competing. Don't blame them for the breed problems, although you can blame them for registering things like merle Schnauzers, white Boxers, etc.
I think many breeds are working to preserve their breeds and keeping health, temperament, and their ability to do the job for which they were bred at the forefront of their breeding plans. I think other realized they have already gone too far off the tracks are looking to solve the issues. Ultimately, it will be up to the CONSUMER to demand changes. When people STOP BUYING dogs that can't breathe properly, that are practically crippled by two years old, that have back issues, etc., the breeders will have not choice but to make changes.
When people STOP BUYING dogs that can't breathe properly, that are practically crippled by two years old, that have back issues, etc., the breeders will have not choice but to make changes.
I agree but the public is not aware until it's too late. If this subject didn't interest me, I wouldn't know the severity of the problem either. Once the dog is ill, THEN the owners start to question the breeding practices but it's too late. It's a vicious cycle.
The AKC is part of the problem. Owners of certain breeds fear admittance to the AKC as they feel the breed will be "ruined". As an example, owners of a rarer type of hunting breed; the Boykin Spaniel were pretty vocal about this I remember.
This is a good link. The posts below article are even more interesting regarding what owners feel happens after admittance to the AKC.
hiero2; Great post! I totally agree. I have posted on other threads about how sad and frustrating it is that this goes on.
I have two beagles. AKC show beagles have at least escaped some of the severe looks that result in health issues. Nonetheless there is a distinct difference in looks between show and field types. Both can be registered with the AKC. Both technically meet the separate breed standards. It's odd that they are recognized that way. I think the hunting beagle owners have refused to conform. Below is a video to show the difference. My older field beagle looks like a miniature foxhound. He is very fast and quite pretty in the face. I don't care for the stocky build, large heard, droopy jowls and bushy tail of the show type. More importantly if you google show vs field beagle, it's well known that the show type one is not built to hunt well for long periods.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Uh, NO! If she isn't good enough to show in AKC, I just won't show her. AKC is it if you are serious about competing. Don't blame them for the breed problems, although you can blame them for registering things like merle Schnauzers, white Boxers, etc. 
