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Old 01-26-2010, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Way South of the Volvo Line
2,788 posts, read 8,011,903 times
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I like both of them. My only criticism of Victoria is her reliance on treats as training tools. I prefer praise and/or toy reward over treats.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Lompoc,CA
1,318 posts, read 5,271,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djxpress View Post
I like the Pack Leader, though after watching it for about 3 years, it's kind of the same old thing episode after episode. I know there's only so many different ways to explain the basic rules, and Ceasar's pretty much covered in every way imaginable.

I've actually found his teaching kind of helpful with my little nephew who is a spoiled brat.
Hahahaaa!!! LOL
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,942 posts, read 22,515,133 times
Reputation: 25816
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaixeon76 View Post
forget it's me or the dogs and dog whisperer
neither of these guys know English and the audience (me) gets frustrated trying to follow their poor communicative kakakoo
if you can't afford a real dog behaviorist or atleast a decent DVD try "in the dog house" by brad patterson
it's borderline between the two above and his method well it's more a combination of things.
first of all he points out the owners relationships and fix what ever conflict people in the home have then he address the k9 issue if its dominance he will alpha roll and show you correct way.
once the dog get Demoted he hand it back to the owner and tell you good luck you now have a good clean foundation to work and build upon follow his instructions and be consistence and you'll be fine.
none of these are dog training DVD they are TV Series but Brad does it best the other two I'd have to rank cearsar first and victoria I just can't stand her but is about the only positive training you can find free on TV just keep in mind her teaching is very conflicting and unsure while the other two are very convincing. bottom line: you should start with clicker training and stick with it. really give it a chance it works.
for me I started blindly buying used books any where i can find on dog training and from leash pops choke chain prong to electric shock collar done it all and ended up with a dog thats insecure unsure scare and aggressive toward strangers human and dogs.
we now clicker train and leave out punishments as much as possible she's finally coming around.
I saw 'In the Dog House' once and really did not like that guy. He seemed downright mean to the humans AND the dogs.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:02 AM
 
2,179 posts, read 7,374,030 times
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Caesar is treating a dog like a dog, he understands how they think. its hard for humans to do the things dogs do but they are dogs not humans. many people think that picking a dog up by the neck is cruel but as we all know this is how dogs do it so in closing yes Caesars methods seem strange to us humans but they are quite natural to a dog and that is what a dog needs.
in most country's dogs dont act as screwed up as they do in America because the owners treat them as dogs not children.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:20 AM
 
7,380 posts, read 15,670,954 times
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dogs pick each other up by the neck? something similar to hanging each other in the air by a collar? ok...

millan's methods are based on outdated studies of wolves. read any *current* study of wolf or dog behavior and you'll find that aggression is not a characteristic of a pack leader.

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

positive trainers treat dogs like dogs. force-based trainers treat dogs like no actual animal on earth.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read 10,943,013 times
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Cesar uses VERY dangerous methods to control dogs. He instills fear, shuts them down, and teaches them to behave by scaring them into doing otherwise. The "Do not try this at home" warning at the beginning of the show should make you think twice about listening to what he does. If you watch the show with an understanding of dog behavior, you'll see very obvious appeasement and fear signals coming from the dogs--you can see them yawning, licking their lips, the whites of their eyes, etc. Bad news.

Victoria, on the other hand, makes dogs behave by making them want to do the command (usually through treats, since that's simplest). There is no fear of shutting down a dog this way, no fear of increasing aggression, and it's not dangerous. It's been shown to be longer lasting, most dogs pick it up faster, and it's FUN for people to train their dogs with clickers and positive reinforcement. (If the clicker is too hokey, use a verbal marker--I use "YES!")

So yeah, it's pretty obvious which I prefer. Here are some other studies/opinions on how dangerous and cruel Cesar is to dogs.

Modern Dog Training vs. Cesar Millan
Eyes for Lies Blog: The Dog Whisperer's Motives
Cesar Millan: Canine guru, or doggie dope? - Cesar Millan - Zimbio

If you want a GOOD trainer's approach to this, look up any of the following: Patricia McConnell, Ian Dunbar, Karen Pryor or Jean Donaldson
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Colorado
22,823 posts, read 6,433,253 times
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I like them both,
my husband does not like Victoria Stillwell.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
1,300 posts, read 3,602,706 times
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Victoria's methods are completely safe and you can substitute treats for toys and praise if your dog is more motivated by toys/praise. The reason she uses chicken, hot dog etc is they are high value treats and therefore the dog will pick up the training quicker and easier. In her book she talks about phasing out the treats slowly once the dog knows what you're teaching.

Another show that wasn't mentioned is Superfetch on Animal Planet. He talks about what motivates the dog whether it's praise, a tennis ball etc and making that the reward that the dog is working for. It's a very unintimidating way to view training. And it makes it FUN! It's amazing what he trains the dogs to do and how SMART the dogs on that show are!
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:22 PM
 
2,794 posts, read 4,154,660 times
Reputation: 1563
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
Cesar uses VERY dangerous methods to control dogs. He instills fear, shuts them down, and teaches them to behave by scaring them into doing otherwise. The "Do not try this at home" warning at the beginning of the show should make you think twice about listening to what he does. If you watch the show with an understanding of dog behavior, you'll see very obvious appeasement and fear signals coming from the dogs--you can see them yawning, licking their lips, the whites of their eyes, etc. Bad news.

Victoria, on the other hand, makes dogs behave by making them want to do the command (usually through treats, since that's simplest). There is no fear of shutting down a dog this way, no fear of increasing aggression, and it's not dangerous. It's been shown to be longer lasting, most dogs pick it up faster, and it's FUN for people to train their dogs with clickers and positive reinforcement. (If the clicker is too hokey, use a verbal marker--I use "YES!")

So yeah, it's pretty obvious which I prefer. Here are some other studies/opinions on how dangerous and cruel Cesar is to dogs.

Modern Dog Training vs. Cesar Millan
Eyes for Lies Blog: The Dog Whisperer's Motives
Cesar Millan: Canine guru, or doggie dope? - Cesar Millan - Zimbio

If you want a GOOD trainer's approach to this, look up any of the following: Patricia McConnell, Ian Dunbar, Karen Pryor or Jean Donaldson
The "do not try this at home" is because some of the dogs he works w/ are VERY out of control & agressive, and the regular Joe should NOT try what he does at home. He doesn't instil fear, he teaches respect. Too many people think dogs are little furry people, instead of the ANIMALS they are.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:16 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,352 posts, read 20,023,541 times
Reputation: 11621
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-CityRelo View Post
Victoria's methods are completely safe and you can substitute treats for toys and praise if your dog is more motivated by toys/praise. The reason she uses chicken, hot dog etc is they are high value treats and therefore the dog will pick up the training quicker and easier. In her book she talks about phasing out the treats slowly once the dog knows what you're teaching.

Another show that wasn't mentioned is Superfetch on Animal Planet. He talks about what motivates the dog whether it's praise, a tennis ball etc and making that the reward that the dog is working for. It's a very unintimidating way to view training. And it makes it FUN! It's amazing what he trains the dogs to do and how SMART the dogs on that show are!

yes..... i LOVE how zac teaches on superfetch...... find that particular dog's currency.... be it treats, toys, play, whatever.....
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