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Trainers do have different opinions but Cesar is generally on target. You however are not seeing what it took to bring that dominant dog into compliance.
My trainer deals with serious dominant male issues and I know how it works. In the end the dog will comply and respect.... respect in a pack of the alpha = YOU, is the most important thing.
The dog who is brought up by one person and not under control.... and came-up on the owner and bit him because he was being corrected with a prong, no respect there for who the alpha is.... needs to be helicoptered off the ground with the prong and put in it's place.
But everyone has their own opinion. Always seek the advice of a professional.
I think there is controversy about helicoptering and hanging a dog within the group of people who use harsh methods on handler aggressive dogs. I have also heard most handler aggression can be managed by establishing rank over the dog using more subtle, non physical methods and that many cases occur because the handler applies what the dog percieves to be an unfair correction before they have established the right ranking relationship. This often happens with law enforcement dogs where the K9 handler has not established a bond with the dog before issuing corrections.
I will agree that many folks who don't believe in any corrections have not met or dealt with a truly dominant dog.
Not all dogs will respond to his type of training. shy/frightened/feral dogs should not be treated the same as aggressive/domineering/alpha dogs. Even Milan states and shows that. Leadership does not mean dominence and command does not mean leadership.
...I truely believe there is not one way to train a dog but if your personality doesn't lead to actual leadership then training for the trainer is what is really needed.
Absolutely - I think the folks who hate him (or anyone) without exception are just as wrong as folks who think he is a God.
Personally, I read up on the history of the "alpha roll" technique and immediately stopped doing it. However, other techniques of his are valuable, especially with my stubborn little AmStaff/Boxer mix. But she's just as clever as she is stubborn
A less controversial figure (whom I like very much) is Victoria Stillwell of "It's Me or the Dog." My training is probably 75% hers, 25% Cesar.
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Originally Posted by Venom
I think people anthropomorphize a little too much.
I think this forum would probably be better named the "Anthropomorphization Forum", but there is a reason behind some of the complaints.
I like Cesar's take on "Dog Psychology" and I think that he is extremely good at what he does.
That said, he has spawned an enormous army of "shush-ers" who really have no clue what they are doing but happily and confidently take on dog rehabilitation projects that they are woefully unequipped to handle. These "shush-ers" readily apply alpha-rolls and choke corrections when it is completely inappropriate to do so. It isn't so much Cesar as the hordes of inept copy-cats.
Cesar makes it look easy and the National Geographic editing team makes it look even easier. It's not. When you watch Cesar's show, you are seeing the culmination of his life's work and experience. Very few people have that breadth of experience and watching a few seasons does not really bestow expertise.
I've worked with gundogs and waterdogs for a long time but I wouldn't want to fool with a truly (problematic) dominant dog, particularly of a breed I didn't well understand.
I like mostly how he counsels the owners in dog psychology. Too many of them have created their own problems and he lets them know that. Dogs are DOGS - NOT people. So many people forget that.
Personally years ago we used a number of barbara wodehouse techniques (remember her? the brit?) and they worked very well. Esp. the "out" command when they were puppies. Because that is the closest sound to the "mom-yip" that mom-dog uses to tell them when they are getting out of line.
From the (general) veterinary professional point of view the reasons that I know people don't like him is because he has no training or structured education in animal behavior. I don't know much about his methods but I did go look him up an on his website it says he has a natural gift "his blessed gift - a primal communion with nature - always came naturally to him," that allows him to understand animals and he has basically done "self-study", ie., he has read some books. This is just not enough in my opinion. He may get it right some times but what about the other times, is he doing more damage? Is he putting his life, the dog owners life, or the dogs life ( in some states) in danger with his methods?
Animal behavior is complex and that is why most animal behaviorist are also doctors, they can examine all the different aspects that might affect an animals behavior like neurological and physiologic responses.
Having worked with search and rescue dogs for a number of years now, I see two basic kinds of trainers. The "naturals" and the "educated" ones. The former really do seem to "get it" more than the latter and are, in my opinion, better dog trainers. I am more of the latter who would give my eye teeth to be more of a natural dog trainer.
The difference, to me, is the natural dog trainer has a knack with reading canine and human body language that go right over the heads of most of us. The flick of an ear, the curl at the tip of the tail, etc. etc.. They really "read" the dog and are in the moment with the dog.
Humans have had working relationships with animals for centuries and in these days of behaviorists everywhere, the human-dog relationship is more broken than ever. I have been told so many times "you are overthinking it, just watch the dog"
to like and dislike his techniques. It all boils down to what works for what type of and personality of the dog, situation, handler ability and over all knowledge. Ceasar has a commonsense approach to displaying his training style. I think that is why people like him so much and why others don't. Kind of the Dr Phil syndrom.
I wish he would have a few cases dealing with the medical side of behavior issues. Yet I don't know if he subscribes to the idea of medical reasons.
My pets are my kids, I talk to them like they are human but I command them like they are dogs. I believe voice tone and inflections lets the dog have a constant feedback as my temperment. (something I learned with horses as well. strenghten the bond or connection).
I agree his show is too well edited for the general public to understand that it takes a long time to work out the problems. I have only seen one episode where a time eliment was displayed to show how long it took to get from point A to B and on and on. Yet, I do notice more and more on some shows esp with little dogs that he spends more time training the owner and not the dog.
The vast majority of criticisms launched at Milan are completely off base and lack an understanding of his approach towards dogs. First of all, when these foolish critics refer to "Cesar's Methods" they are often simply talking about "the alpha roll". I watch his show quite often and the only times I have ever seen him do this has been with dogs that are "red zone" cases that have reached the point where they are willing and capable of biting and/or killing another animal or, even worse, a human being. So, who the damn hell cares if the "alpha roll" is traumatic to a dog that (a) is at risk of killing or seriously hurting someone and (b) will be euthanized anyway if the aggression is not corrected. There are many instances in the show where the owner says "we've taken the dog to a gazillion trainers and professionals and they have all told us that the dog is hopeless." Well, in many of these cases, Cesar's work with these dogs has changed the situation.
Secondly, from what I have observed about Cesar is that he doesn't have some canned pet trainer "method" at all. In fact, he spends loads of time in "no touch, no talk, no eye contact" mode and simply observes the dog and owners body language. From there he always tries to find a solution that fits with the particular case that he is working with. He often talks about finding creative techniques to deal with your dog's behavioural issues and he never condones physical punishment such as hitting or beating. In many cases, he determines that the dog's problem is simply a lack of exercise. OH MY! HOW INHUMANE! DON'T FORCE EXERCISE ON YOUR DOG YOU FAT FAST FOOD EATING MORONS!
Lastly, many people in this discussion have mentioned that his techniques do not work on "shy/frightened/feral" cases, but I have never seen so-called "dominance" as his approach to rehabilitating such cases. For example, in one episode there was dog that was neurotically fearful
of garbage cans. Cesar helped the dog by creating an obstacle course of garbage cans and he patiently guided the dog through the course until the dog was walked past the cans confidently. Oh my! What a terrible dominating man! How dare he help a dog overcome its fears. In the case of one feral dog that lived on a horse ranch, Cesar spent several hours gently trying to leash a wild dog so that it could be spayed. The dog apparently kept giving birth to puppies that the ranch owners had to keep finding homes for. The feral dog was never "alpha rolled" or punished. It was patiently taken to get fixed so that it would stop producing more homeless pups. After getting fixed, the dog continued to bond with the horses on the ranch. What a terrible thing.
Cesar Milan uses negative reinforcement which is NOT a productive way of training a dog. He uses many techniques that make those of us who use only positive training positively CRINGE. He uses flooding, which is an AWFUL technique and one that is actually outlawed by use on human POWs by the Geneva Convention. He uses intimidation. He's someone I suggest people avoid emulating.
Just NOT a good way to train a dog.
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I can see variances in reasons
