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no offense intended.
Just never heard of it............I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viralmd
It's not 'weird' terminology. It's a standard word in behavioral therapy circles and it's horrible. I can't imagine being put into a situation of which I'm fearful with the feared stimuli coming fast and furious, with NO escape.
What I get out of his show, is to remember dogs are dogs. They should be loved, attended to and cared for but they can quickly jump into neuroses when they aren't seen first through the lens of being a dog.
What I get out of his show, is to remember dogs are dogs. They should be loved, attended to and cared for but they can quickly jump into neuroses when they aren't seen first through the lens of being a dog.
Yes!!!!! I think we tend to do that!!!! I know I do
I haven't read any of his books and I've only seen him on TV a couple of times but I wasn't very impressed.
My favorite "trainer" is Suzanne Clothier - she has a wonderful book called Bones Would Rain From the Sky. The subtitle is Deepening or Relationship with Dogs.
She doesn't write about specific training of a desired behavior, ie. sit or down. Rather she deals with how we interact with our dogs and engage in "the dance", thereby achieving our goals without harsh techniques at all.
We lavish affection on our dog when his behavior is satisfactory and we discipline him with avoidance(he HATES to be shunned) or a stern put down depending on the severity of the behavior.
Exactly Shunning is sweetness and honey, imo. Just semantics, I think. No raised voices needed either. A calm and in-control voice with a stern tone works magic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrackly
Anybody that has medium to large size dogs knows just telling them that you are disappointed is not discipline. Likewise rewarding with treats for every good behavior only creates fat, hungry dogs that want more instead of looking to please you or to fit in.
Hey, are you calling my dog fat (just kidding)!!! Just telling a dog that you are disappointed is not discipline for any size of dog. That's more like a conversation than training ~
Why do you say that food based training creates a fat dog? I think misuse of that type of training will, that's for sure! Like you said, every proper act does not require a treat!
I do not know that Milan yells and screams behind the scenes. I saw a show where he does "roll" a dog. In my experience, that only works with naturally submissive and compliant animals.
But if Milan uses that "flooding" technique, he's a complete a**. As a technique it works neither with people nor animals.
I don't think that one way will work for every single dog. From every method or trainer you should "just take what you need and leave the rest!" (By way of The Band!)
Last edited by Wicked Felina; 06-06-2009 at 03:54 PM..
Reason: OMG! too long-winded!!
Again, this accusation that he uses "negative" reinforcement is baseless. He does not strike the animals, he does not starve the animals, he does not shove them in a kennel everytime they are "bad". He works uniquely with each case and helps the dogs overcome their behavioral issues.
You're against "flooding"? How would teach a dog that is afraid of garbage cans that there is nothing to fear? You'd rather hide every garbage can in the world at keep your scared dog in a neurotic bubble?
I had to look up the link to "flooding"...the term was new to me. After seeing the definition I see nothing wrong with that type of therapy in the correct hands. It seems to me that "flooding" also implies gradual and controlled exposure to a particular fear or phobia. Fear is a learned response in all animals. Repeated, secure, controlled encounters with the source of fear are the only way I ever heard of overcoming them. Worked for me with deep water.
I've watched many Cesar Milan shows. He seems to introduce the pets to their insecurities gradually and carefully. O f course the shows are edited for screen time so months = 4 minutes sir time. If that is the "flooding" in question, I see no problem with it.
I guess we "flood" horses when we train them but we don't call it "flooding" we call it desenitisizng or just plain getting him used to stuff Before we show horses we like to get them used to all kinds of sounds, stimuli that they well hear and see and understand that this will not hurt them.
SYstematic desensitization is a gradual exposure to the feared stimulus. Flooding is really an overwhelming exposure to the feared stimulus, all at once, with no escape until the stimulus is no longer feared. It can be quite a shock to people but if you have no time, mit's the only way to go.
SYstematic desensitization is a gradual exposure to the feared stimulus. Flooding is really an overwhelming exposure to the feared stimulus, all at once, with no escape until the stimulus is no longer feared. It can be quite a shock to people but if you have no time, mit's the only way to go.
Well, if that is what is called "flooding" then its a pretty off-base accusation of what Cesar does. What HE DOES do is slowly a gradually familiarize the dog with the source of its fear. Whatever, though, a lot of people in the animal world feel threatened when a guy like Cesar walks in and achieves results that they have failed to accomplish.
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Shunning is sweetness and honey, imo. Just semantics, I think. No raised voices needed either. A calm and in-control voice with a stern tone works magic! 
