So why do lots of people dislike Cesar Millan? (poop, science, diet)
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From a medical perspective I was horrified by that video. That dog was not laying there out of submission, he was laying there because he had been suffocated. They have a great shot of his mouth open just after Milan pushes him down, and his tongue is purple. That is caused by oxygen not reaching the head, caused by the 'hanging' method Milan is using.
I believe this to be a total exaggeration! when the dog was laying there just after the lay down he licked his lips and the tongue was pink!
Also I guess Cesar was suppose to give the dog a cookie and say now now thats mean to bite.......... so dont do it again pat pat on the dogs head!!!!
That dog was coming after him and he handled in appropriately.
I think Cesaer has done more good than bad. He has given hope to owners of "problem" dogs and saved the lives of many dogs who may have otherwise been put down. First, he starts with the basics, like providing plenty of exercise. As the owner of two "hyper" breed dogs, a Dalmation and a Miniature Pinscher, I realize how important exercise is. A slow walk around the neighborhood just doesn't do it. My Min Pin can basically sprint for about three miles as I inline skate. My motto is "A tired dog is a good dog." She is a perfect angel as long as she gets plenty of exercise.
Second, he shows owners how to take charge WITHOUT even using physical means, if that is sufficient. Things like making the dog wait and going though the doorway first, making the dog sit before you feed him, and leading the way during walks rather than letting the the dog lead are all simple, non-aggressive ways ways to train.
Third, he does use positive reinforcement (food motivators) and praise, when applicable. When a dog needs to be corrected, he uses verbal correction "Shhhht," when possible.
Fourth, he uses his well-adjusted dogs or entire pack of dogs to assist in rehabilitating. Integrating the rehabilitating dog with the others is a natural way to bring the dog back to his instincts and into balance.
Finally, when he is dealing with dogs that aren't responsive to the things above, he moves on to physical "touch" paired with his verbal correction "Shhhht." The dogs aren't yelping or getting hurt. He isn't using excessive force. It would be very similar to a mother dog or another dog correcting behavior. Pairing it with the verbal correction will allow the owner to soon ONLY use the verbal correction because the physical "touch" won't be needed.
In regards to the clip provided of Cesaer being bitten provided by Groar, Cesaer is using more extreme measures at that moment because he had to. If you had a dog jumping at you and trying to bite you, you'd probably do what you can to keep the dog away from you as well. This is ONE instance in which such severe methods were used. Keep in mind, Cesaer isn't dealing with your average animal. He is dealing with animals that are dominant, aggressive, and/or out of control. I agree that in training an animal, using positive reinforcements is the way to go! Using Cesaer's techniques (plenty of exercise, positive reinforcement, going through doorways first, etc.) all work, in my experience. With my dogs, positive reinforcement and the verbal correction "AhAh" is all that is needed. For MOST dogs, this is all that is needed to train them. Most dogs will never need to be forced into physical submission, regardless of the breed. He is working with the MOST difficult cases, not your average dogs. After watching almost every episode, I'm a Cesaer fan! For those who don't like the physical touch, don't use it if you don't have to. For those who don't like forcing the dog into submission, don't use it. There is so much that Cesaer does that CAN be used even if you don't like those two things.
I think most people like him, but there is a small minority that dislike him. I use some of his techniques and I find them to work. But I don't have very aggressive dogs so I don't have much of a problem.
I also use positive reinforcement training as well.
If you saw a person doing something equivalent to a child would you call it training or would you call it abuse?
Patricia McConnell also works with the most difficult cases and has no need to use violence to coerce the dog into submission which is what he did in that video. He did not train the dog to be OK with other dogs.
Actually Zugor, I work with kids with emotional problems, and they do train educators to restrain them. Sometimes it takes 2-3 people to restrain one child. I think restraints should be the last course of action, but in some cases it is necessary.
So to answer your question - restraints are legally used on children as well.
I tried his tough, macho (I'm the pack leader) thing on a smallish dog who was yapping incessantly at me -- didn't work. Then, I crouched down and made myself as small as the dog (give or take a few extra lbs on my part -- LOL) and the dog stopped yapping and rolled over in submission. So, I don't think it works every time.
From a medical perspective I was horrified by that video. That dog was not laying there out of submission, he was laying there because he had been suffocated. They have a great shot of his mouth open just after Milan pushes him down, and his tongue is purple. That is caused by oxygen not reaching the head, caused by the 'hanging' method Milan is using.
So what would you have him do Kansas? Have his arm bit off? I think you forget than many of these dogs have already been to other trainers that use other methods and they HAVE NOT WORKED. I admire Milan for preventing many dogs being sent off to the pound and killed. Before he made dog training popular, that's commonly what would have happened to many of these pets.
And just because you are in the medical field does not make your opinion any more valid than the rest of us. Many of us are actively involved in dog rescues, have pets of our own, or are trainers ourselves. That's fine that you are a vet, I congratulate you on the achievement , but until you can train a rampaging Pit Bull to become a docile companion, I think you should save the criticism.
there are plenty of positive trainers out there who can and do train aggressive dogs. i'm sure you know, since you use it, that positive training does not mean "give the dog a cookie no matter what".
i belong to a positive training e-mail list and there are k9 officers on there, schutzhund trainers, trainers of all sorts of working dogs from herders to protection dogs. and yes there are people who rehabilitate aggressive dogs. and they do it without endangering the dogs, physically or psychologically.
try reading turid rugaas, patricia mcconnell, pat millar, ian dunbar, karen pryor... these are all lifelong trainers who have dealt with aggressive dogs with positive reinforcement.
i hate to repeat myself but i don't feel like most of the things i've said in this thread have been addressed by anyone. maybe my posts are too long. i do want to reiterate for the third time that while everyone is saying "what would you have done if a dog was trying to bite you" that millan got himself bitten through his own actions. the dog did not aggress until he kicked it. the dog did not try to bite him (he was biting the leash first) until millan had been strangling him for 30 seconds or so. he had ample opportunity to remove the dog from a tense situation, but instead he made it worse. it sure made for exciting television though!
yes, sometimes very aggressive dogs have to be physically restrained, but hanging a dog by the neck and then forcing it to the ground is not safe for the dog or for the handler.
and maybe the majority of the american public like millan, because he gets a lot of publicity. but i think you'll find that the majority of canine behaviorists and quite a lot of trainers feel that he's set dog training back 20 years. several associations of trainers, behaviorists, and vets, have released statements disavowing his methods.
Groar - Actually the way that I heard about him was before his TV show when I was volunteering as a foster for rescues. The manager of the nonprofit told me about him and told me that a lot of people within the dog rescue community were excited about him.
Positive reinforcement is useful. And if you notice, Cesar does not say not to use it. I think, depending on the dog, a mixture of both techniques would be beneficial. I think in general, most people who are against his methods tend to be academics and or trainers using a different method. Personally I think they are threatened by his popularity and see their status as "experts" slipping away. I have found the same type of resistance when discussing preventative health through natural dog food diets.
And it was hardly a kick. Cesar was trying to redirect the dog's attention after he started focusing on the neighbor's barking dog. It was not anything close to warranting the dog's aggressive reaction.
The bottom line is, many who turn to Cesar, only go to him after trying many of the dog behavorists that you mention. None of the other options have worked for them. If you watch the personal narravtive in the beginning of the training closely you will find that many are at the end of their ropes and have tried everything. Cesar does not work with German Shepherd pups ready to be police dogs. He works with out of control aggressive adult dogs (rescues in many cases), who are dominating the household. There is a big difference.
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i do want to reiterate for the third time that while everyone is saying "what would you have done if a dog was trying to bite you" that millan got himself bitten through his own actions. the dog did not aggress until he kicked it. the dog did not try to bite him (he was biting the leash first) until millan had been strangling him for 30 seconds or so. he had ample opportunity to remove the dog from a tense situation, but instead he made it worse. it sure made for exciting television though!
