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Old 11-13-2012, 02:00 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,367 posts, read 14,313,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinkytoes View Post

... ( approx late 400's AD to about 1400s ad) and it really does seem like someone is trying to get another crack at feudalism.

If it makes you feel better, history shows us that's difficult to do w/ a powerful middle class, or even a reasonably pissed lower class.
The more you read about human history and read between the lines, the more you may notice that "feudalism", in some form or another, has been the norm and that the mid-Twentieth Century middle class in the US/Europe has been the exception, and probably a short-lived one (80-100 years is a drop in the bucket).

Good Luck!
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,913,395 times
Reputation: 28520
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
The more you read about human history and read between the lines, the more you may notice that "feudalism", in some form or another, has been the norm and that the mid-Twentieth Century middle class in the US/Europe has been the exception, and probably a short-lived one (80-100 years is a drop in the bucket).

Good Luck!
And the more you study history, the more you realize we are repeating the great depression cycle. Credit/debt boom, soaring to unsustainable levels, and followed by a marked crash in the system. Savings rates pick back up, businesses are starved of profit potential, the economy screeches to a halt, houses go into foreclosure, jobs are hard to find... This is not the first time this has happened. Nothing indicates the last go around was a "planned" event, so I have a hard to believing this is any different. If anything, the free market is finally having it's way. I just wish COL and taxes were more favorable to the victims.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Land of Free Johnson-Weld-2016
6,470 posts, read 16,405,309 times
Reputation: 6521
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
The more you read about human history and read between the lines, the more you may notice that "feudalism", in some form or another, has been the norm and that the mid-Twentieth Century middle class in the US/Europe has been the exception, and probably a short-lived one (80-100 years is a drop in the bucket).

Good Luck!
I disagree. My impression of the "norm" in a lot of societies was the method of marauding other nations/tribes and taking their property. Feudalism and any form of related slavery is not really sustainable.

The feudal system in Europe seemed to be a temporary system which came about as a result of the warring/pillaging way of life of the Germanic conquerors and the slavery in the Roman empire. It was not sustainble then, and would not be nowadays.

Another big hinderance to a feudal society was Christianity. It had a ginormous influence on European society, and I think has an irrevocable influence on the acceptance of treating others unfairly or taking other people's "stuff." The ideas Jesus introduced were earth shattering for societies around the globe.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:04 AM
 
621 posts, read 658,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
And the more you study history, the more you realize we are repeating the great depression cycle. Credit/debt boom, soaring to unsustainable levels, and followed by a marked crash in the system. Savings rates pick back up, businesses are starved of profit potential, the economy screeches to a halt, houses go into foreclosure, jobs are hard to find... This is not the first time this has happened. Nothing indicates the last go around was a "planned" event, so I have a hard to believing this is any different. If anything, the free market is finally having it's way. I just wish COL and taxes were more favorable to the victims.
We live on an exponential debt curve. It is the nature of the beast. But some people know this and others forget about it. What I see is some very few at the top making long term plans to profit from this at everyone else's expense. Example. Saving in banks for retirement tends to reduce trade deficits. Saving for retirement in the stock market tends to drive trade deficits higher. 401Ks. encouraged saving in the stock market for retirement. Supply side economics encouraged the debt bubble. Etc.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:03 AM
 
17,314 posts, read 22,056,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veyron View Post
I'm a young guy. I started working during the recession era and I do not know what it is like to work in a good economy. So what is it like?

How easy was it to get a job back then? What were the salaries like? I'm curious.

I was around the construction industry in/during the "boom" from 2003-2007 in South Florida. Project managers out of college (never built anything in their life!) were making 60K a year. Toll Bros. was hiring college kids rather than veterans because they were cheaper and could be "trained" their way. Even on the labor side, site managers were making $800 a week and could be stolen away for 1K a week at a competing site. All the guys were showing up in brand new 50K trucks with nice trailers/tools. If you could get the work done you essentially named your price.

With closing bonuses (getting homes built/sold fast) the top guy on a site for luxury homes could make 150K a year. Realtors were making crazy money, driving big cars (don't forget the Hummer/Escalade boom when you could write off any vehicle over 6,000 lbs in one year). I know realtors that were bartenders one year, making 150-200K a year 3 years later only now back behind the bar. You could flip a house for 50K profit in a few months doing nothing but waiting and banks would finance you at 100%, you would only make a payment or two and the place was sold, 50K profit in your pocket.

The cash was FLOOOOWWWING back then! Good times for most!
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