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"Common sense" skills are a lot more, well, "common" than "book smarts". In the case of the doctor, he is probably earning enough $$$ treating patients with chemotherapy or radiation or reading MRIs to pay somebody else to change his tire without incurring any noticeable dent in his pocketbook.
Doctors, lawyers, etc typically aren't "middle-class."
CNA/Phelobotomist/LVN is working class, CNA/Phleb are actually more working poor.
RN is middle-class.
MD is upper-class.
Just as a rought ball park, an LVN makes about 40-50k/year here, an RN 70-80k, a GP $180k. There's some overlap... a CRNA, Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists, makes $150-200k/year, about what a GP does. They might earn as much, but they're not in the same social class.
This would be my list from the hospital ....
indigent poor - the patient with no job and no (or free) housing, food, clothing, hospital care.
lower class / working poor - the cafeteria cashier, receptionist, janitor making minimum wage using minimal skills. The job can be easily replaced with another worker.
working class - the hospital's CNA/LVN/daycare worker with some minimal skill training, making more than minimum hourly wage.
middle class - the RN, HVAC tech, admin asst. with some higher skill training and a middle salaried position, with more stable benefits and job security.
upper mid class - the MD/hospital attorney/IT engineer/middle manager/PR director with more advanced degrees (e.g. MD, JD, MBA, certified engineer) who is an employeed, highly paid, staff member. These are the most highly educated, highly paid employees.
upper class - the hospital MD who owns his own practice/multiple practices, the hospital board who are business owners/high level executives, the architect who owns the firm that designed the hospital, the lawyer who is majority partner in the firm that represents the hospital. The owners of the companies that supply the hospital with engineered systems, products, pharmaceuticals, staffing, contractors, even bed linens and uniforms, etc.... The upper class income is in the form of company profits/stock/business sale/collected rents/asset appreciation, and provides advantage of tax havens.
These are the upper class.... and many of them may not even be that highly formally educated. But I still consider them upper class as I associate upper class more with power and influence (which is attained through money and connections), not merely educational attainment/degrees. This is why many college dropouts, like P. Diddy and Bill Gates, are considered upper class, while some of the most highly educated people I've met are driving Chicago cabs and considered working class.
"Common sense" skills are a lot more, well, "common" than "book smarts". In the case of the doctor, he is probably earning enough $$$ treating patients with chemotherapy or radiation or reading MRIs to pay somebody else to change his tire without incurring any noticeable dent in his pocketbook.
I think common sense (or business instinct) becomes more important again when moving from the ranks of upper middle class (the hospital top MD) and upper class (the hospital Board of Directors, some of whom may have less education than the top MD).
There is a recurrent and rather interesting theme through out this thread of some posters regarding middle class and above people as "lacking in common sense".
A second theme that is at odds with one of the OPs statements, has been voiced by several non working class posters, and that is the snobbery of the working class towards the middle, and upper middle classes. Because we hire others to change the oil in our vehicles or re-shingle our roofs - we must be morons. Lacking in common sense. In fact "Common Sense" emerges time and time again as a working class value.
Another working class value has to do with the way physical labor and strength are regarded. Strength and muscle, especially for men, are expected and held in high esteem among working class individuals.
Not so much with middle class and above populations.
I would not say that working class people are open to those who are different from them, nor are they more egalitarian in general. Ethnicity, family, neighborhood location and race are very important to the working class.
Their families tend to be "strong" - used this way, it is neither a positive nor negative evaluation, but a term for families that are difficult to penetrate for new comers, and difficult to establish boundaries from for members. Adult working class people tend to have keys to their parent's homes and to the homes of their sibling's and spouses.
They will say that this is for "safety" or "in case of emergency", but that hardly explains this practice.
Many (most) lawyers do not make big salaries. Many young lawyers are having a difficult time just finding a job.
Big like what? A cardiac surgeon? No. Most lawyers don't make that much. Average here is around $150k, and it's higher in the Bay Area or LA. And I wouldn't agree that many young lawyers are having a difficult time finding a job. Given, I'm pretty unlikely to encounter one that isn't employed, but I see lots of young lawyers changing firms pretty regularly in my area. What young law school grads are having a hard time doing is becoming lawyers. It's pretty typical for 1/3 of law school grads to never become lawyers.
I do not think that the OP was bashing working class or blue collar people at all. As a Sociologist, examining how people behave in groups, is what we do.
There is a major US research university with graduate degrees in Working Class Studies. We do have classes in America. Our problem? No one, with the exception of academics wants to accept that. There may be others. I am only studying at one.
When we accept class as a realty in the U.S., apart from wealth and they are very different, we can begin to see how important this topic is.
I agree. I don't think the OP was far off when it comes to the food comment since there is a relationship between BMI and income level of course there's always going to be exceptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2
Many (most) lawyers do not make big salaries. Many young lawyers are having a difficult time just finding a job.
Agreed.Many doctors and lawyers would be in the upper middle class category or professional class and make salaries near six figures or above it, but they aren't upper class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
There is a recurrent and rather interesting theme through out this thread of some posters regarding middle class and above people as "lacking in common sense".
A second theme that is at odds with one of the OPs statements, has been voiced by several non working class posters, and that is the snobbery of the working class towards the middle, and upper middle classes. Because we hire others to change the oil in our vehicles or re-shingle our roofs - we must be morons. Lacking in common sense. In fact "Common Sense" emerges time and time again as a working class value.
I noticed it as well. What's considered "common sense" is more like a set of skills that groups of people need to know to get through their daily life. For the person making $15 an hour, knowing how to change a tire is a big money saver compared to the guy making $50 an hour. To the indigenous population of New Guinea, knowing how to catch a fish with only a spear is "common sense". It's all relative and it's why I dislike it when people use that term as a means of establishing superiority over someone else.
I was raised in a solidly middle class family. My father was an Air Force officer and my mother stayed home with us three kids. We moved every three or four years and lived in comfortable, but not luxurious or prestigious, neighborhoods. I attended public schools. Because we were a one income family, we had a strict budget we needed to stick to (I clearly remember my mom bringing it up as we did our shopping, especially during the holidays or during our back to school shopping trips) but it wasn't an uncomfortable budget.
The attitude toward college was - "You're going - and you're going to work at least 25 hours a week and pay some of your college expenses - and you're going to a local college unless you get a scholarship somewhere."
We were expected to get a job the minute we turned 15. The first year I worked, I got a job at a downtown Burger King. It was in a sort of rough area of town, and I worked the closing shift that summer. I remember my dad feeling uncomfortable about me walking to and from my car at 2 am in that neighborhood, so he would actually drop me off and pick me up, even though I could drive. I remember that he would sit in his car and drink coffee and read till I got off work - sometimes I didn't get off work till nearly 3 am, and I know my dad had to go to work himself the next morning and be there by 8 at the latest. So...he taught me a lot about a strong work ethic.
Speaking of work ethics, my mother was a homemaker - and I do mean home MAKER. She kept a spotless house, cooked every meal from scratch (we all sat down to dinner each evening together), raised a large garden, sewed, and also painted oil paintings as a hobby.
It wasn't all a bed of roses. My parents had (and still have) a pretty volatile relationship. My mother has a true artist's temperament (or the stereotype of one) - moody, self absorbed, and insecure about herself. My parents fought a lot, and then my dad would escape into work and my mom would take her frustrations out on us kids. So I became a reader - I could always escape into a book if real life got too gnarly.
Anyway, in college I met a guy who was there on a football scholarship. He was from a poor family but was determined to become a financial success. I admired his pluck, and his work ethic. We got married, against my parents wishes (for starters, I hadn't known him very long - and their gut instinct on this was right, by the way!). Anyway, a few months later, I was living in a less than ideal neighborhood among the poor and the working class.
I was pleasantly surprised by some aspects of my new social class, and unpleasantly surprised by others. On the good side, the people were welcoming, warm, and supportive of us. I was impressed by the camaraderie of the working class and by their generosity of spirit. Like others have mentioned, many people in this subculture are generous to a fault. Talk about giving you the shirt off their back!
There seemed to be less judgmentalism and more acceptance of different lifestyles and lifestyle choices - even if those choices directly led to financial or personal issues. Of course, the flip side of that kind of acceptance is that there's also a tendency to excuse (or make excuses FOR) financial or personal poor choices, and not only for oneself, but for others.
In fact, I often saw bad decisions which resulted in difficulties, and then saw those difficulties being blamed on "da man," or "the system" rather than on the individual actually making those poor choices.
Long story short, there may be more judgmentalism, and less tolerance, in the middle class - but the positive side of that attitude is that people are expected to be self sufficient and responsible with their lives. When you're not, there are ramifications, and you're expected to clean up your own mess.
We were expected to get a job the minute we turned 15.
^^^ This right here, one of the most important things parents, working class or not, should do to push their kids. Whether it be 15 or 16 or in that range, working a job does so much to build your esteem and give you a more productive attitude early in life. Parents do such a disservice to their kids by letting them lounge around all their teenage years doing nothing.
It's interesting to me that in the US, unlike the UK, people tend to avoid labeling themselves "working-class". Unless they were raised in extreme poverty or are Warren Buffett , Americans prefer the term "middle class". But having been raised in a blue-collar home, I've found there are some significant differences between my expectations and experiences in life when compared with my "middle-class" colleagues and friends.
Interestingly, even though my wife is a foreigner, I find she relates to many of these perspectives, as she also comes from a working-class background. Some shared traits/experiences I've noticed:
1) Very little education in how to use/create wealth. Frugal by necessity, but sometimes spendthrifts at payday. No sense of how to invest wisely. Generous, literally, to a fault (for example, by unconditionally lending money to relatives and friends). A lot of time spent visualizing being rich, or hatching hare-brained schemes/playing the lottery, etc.
2) Work is seen as necessary drudgery, not a means to personal fulfillment. Unions are our only defense / don't cross a picket line. Satisfaction is found in hobbies, family, or weekend tasks around the house. College is OK if it leads to a job, but you'd better get a scholarship, and parents can't help you navigate the labyrinth of applications, SATs, tutoring, and financial aid. Reading is an OK escape, but don't do it too much. The TV is always on.
3) "Don't think you're better than other people." Mistrust of "pretense," "elitism," and "fancy stuff." What's familiar (sports teams, neighborhoods, religions, race) is good. For example, domestic beer>boxed wine>any foreign stuff (unless there's an ethnic connection, i.e., Guinness if you're Irish-American). Food should be cheap & plentiful; healthy eating, not smoking and taking care of yourself is weak.
4) Not knowing "the Code." Tendency to over/under dress for the occasion, speak too frankly among wealthier people.
I don't encourage a class warfare mentality, nor do I romanticize growing up working class, but I find the differences interesting. Although I'm probably a "middle class latte-drinker" now , I'm sure I've internalized some of the values I was raised with.
What are your "growing up working-class" experiences?
I do not know if you are making fun or just trying to make a statement. I have issues with this whole class warfare concept. It irritates me to hear from mostly educated people how the poor people cannot and will not be successful because they are lazy. The educated only see wealth as how much money is in the bank. I have issues with this. I have known many self employed people who are living the Capitalist dream by being self employed and making loads of money. But, when they get sick, they have to pay their medical bills out of pocket. And depending how sick they are can financially devastate that person. I have known people who work for Da-Man; get a small hourly wage, and full paid health care by their employer. Who is really making more money? This concept of wealth is all up to interpretation really. Now, if you are born into one of the ruling elite families who control all the money, then this concept of wealth does not apply. A person who looks at our country with a class warfare slant on it, is very narrow minded. I have known people who were making 6 figures for many years and were recently terminated from their employer. Now they live in a trailer in a trailer park someplace because they cannot find a job in their pervious career. The reason they cannot find a job in their previous career is because their career path was outsourced to India or Mexico. In many ways poor, college educated, working class people who live in poverty are in that situation because of stuff that happened beyond their control. (Outsourced). I have also known many working poor families who have a house, car, food, and free health care through their employer. Again, who is wealthy?
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, Americans prefer the term "middle class". But having been raised in a blue-collar home, I've found there are some significant differences between my expectations and experiences in life when compared with my "middle-class" colleagues and friends. 
, I'm sure I've internalized some of the values I was raised with.
